An Open Letter to Venues That Exploit Their Musicians

[bluesblaster]

If your a club owner or booking person and your number one priority is how many loose spending buddies the band is going to bring into the club, then your probably some kind of simpleton jerk. You need to first have a good live music space, then make sure your getting top notch entertainment, Be a destination so your patrons know there gonna see the best bands in town at your club, if you do that the money will take care of itself. A good club with top of the line bands and weekly advertising will be in business for as long as they want. This other business model (PTP)is not a sustainable one IMO

 

[Spent]

There is another big thread about a bar owner's message to musicians. That article is not as well written, but it has some good points too.

Yes, I've read that one before and I think it makes a good point. It's all matter of perspective. IMHO if a clubs consistently books good bands they will gain a reputation and will have good night most of the time. We play a couple of these venues; they're packed when we get there and we keep them packed. People go even though they don't know the bands because they trust the club. There's another one that used to have this reputation, standing room only every night, but they became pay to play and most nights it's the bands, their girl friends. Ithe end, if a band is crappy, worst case scenario they don't get gigs, break up and move on. For the club owner, he's out of business and out a lot more cash than the band.

 

[duff beer]

My advise is to rent a hall and throw your own party, invite all the people the bar was expecting you to bring and pocket any proceeds. Screw them !!!

Unless you're selling drinks, you'll never even break even. Are you willing to put your name on the hall rental contract AND the liquor license and take full responsibility for any damage to the hall as well as any possible liability from drunk drivers that you sold alcohol to?

 

[Metalbasspro]

My old Metal band used to pull in 100 people most venues but one promoter booked us and the 100 did not show up. I guess cause it was on the edge of our stomping grounds. She was not happy about it but it comes down to who's job is it to promote? We handed out our normal 200 flyers for it.

 

[gareth dunster]

Here's a wild idea, filter the bands that play your bar, pay them a sensible amount and build a reputation for having a varied and high quality schedule of bands and pitch yourself as a place where people can always go for a drink and a listen to good live music. Of course to do this you need to know something about the average customer and something about bands.......

 

[bluesblaster]

Unless you're selling drinks, you'll never even break even. Are you willing to put your name on the hall rental contract AND the liquor license and take full responsibility for any damage to the hall as well as any possible liability from drunk drivers that you sold alcohol to?

yes, I suppose things have changed quite a bit since the last time I went to one of these affairs. Its getting harder to make your own fun these days, they have all these rules.

 

[bassinplace]

Anyone who's desperate enough to accept the deal like the one in the op, I suggest you just have a house party and have a cover charge. You'll probably make a lot more money and if you don't at least you didn't waste your time and money paying someone else to let you practice, lol.

 

[thisSNsucks]

I'm in an originals band, and this is what we deal with, even at free shows or no cover shows. "How many people can you bring?" Or "you need 35 tickets minimum."

The best was a gig in Brooklyn we did. The girl who was setting up the show told us the wrong time. We had no one coming because we are a jersey band going to play in Brooklyn on a Sunday night at some (I will say very cool) random bar. When we showed up it was empty and all the girl said to us was "I hope you brought people."

And what if we didn't? YOU already screwed your own show up by giving the only 2 bands playing the wrong times.

We brought no one and still played. The stage was set up in what used to be the garage of this building in its own room next to the bar area. The few people in the bar and about 30 off the street came in and watched our set and bought drinks and a few stayed for the other band. The room couldn't fit more that 45 people comfortably so it looked crowded.

We haven't played a show there again because we didn't bring enough people the first time, obviously the random people off the street that came and had a good time didn't count.

Sounds like Matchless Bar or something like that.

My band won't be playing there again either lol.

 

[hrodbert696]

My advise is to rent a hall and throw your own party, invite all the people the bar was expecting you to bring and pocket any proceeds. Screw them !!!

Unless you're selling drinks, you'll never even break even. Are you willing to put your name on the hall rental contract AND the liquor license and take full responsibility for any damage to the hall as well as any possible liability from drunk drivers that you sold alcohol to?

Depends. Bluesblaster still makes a valid point in principle, though; if the BAND has the captive customers, why should we bother asking a venue to let us play there? Because the logic of the venue-owner's open letter presumes that bands are supposed to have these captive audiences that show up wherever we play, rather than the venue itself attracting customers and the band providing a service that helps make the venue's reputation. If they're OUR customers, why not just get them to pay US directly?

So I just dug into a little internet searching for my area. Here's a place, American Legion hall, with a function room for up to 175 people. 5-hour rental costs $395, $295 if you're a member, bartender will cost you another $60 for the 5 hours. More than 100 people, you have to get a second bartender. Let's assume no members in the band, so that's $455 for the night with up to 100 people coming, $515 for 101-175. I assume that the Legion gets any profit off alcohol sales, because they charge you a $50 fee if you DON'T request bar service.

If the band wants to make money, you'd need a cover charge + any merch sales. If you're a band that can draw 100 people, you'd break even if they spent $4.55 apiece. , NOT including drinks. If you could get them to pay $10 apiece, you'd go home with $545. If you could bring in 175 people and pack the hall, you break even if they pay $3.11 apiece. If they pay $5 each, you make $360: if they pay $10 each, you make $1235.

There's a smaller room that holds 50 for $125, $185 with bartender. Might be too small for a gig unless it was a small jazz or acoustic thing, but just to crunch numbers, break-even is $3.70, $5 per person nets you $65, $10/person nets $315.

From the looks of things, other halls around here might be a bit cheaper (one doesn't post its precise rates but says they "start at $100," which might mean 20% cheaper across the board - or just that it's smallest room is 20% smaller). I assume that the VFW holds the liquor license and the liability insurance, so that wouldn't be a concern here.

Bottom line, seems to me, is that if you are an established band that really can motivate people to show up and spend money, you actually could do better running your own show. Otherwise, you'll be making money that you'd consider poor payment from a bar, if not just breaking even or actually losing money.

 

[bluesblaster]

Hey, thanks for doing the homework to illustrate my point. The whole idea being, dont get bamboozled by some schmuck who will use you to do all the work when its obviously the band the people are coming to see anyway, while he reaps the profits from ticket/cover charge and liqour sales. As long as your doing all the leg work anyway why not put the profits in your own pocket instead of his.

 

[Desirsar]

After reading those numbers, while microwaving some burritos, I had a thought...

Would there be a market for a concert-specific venue that operates like the VFW - for hire by bands who do all their own promotion, and has a liquor license and bartenders available, but unlike a bar would only be open when shows are booked? Pay-to-play, except you set your own price, with potential for profit?

 

[two fingers]

OP, you already answered your own question. The wine bar owner would never agree to your terms for doing an "exposure gig" at your house because it is stupid and ridiculous. But they will ask you to do it because musicians will line up to take such deal.

Let me put it back in your court. Say I was able to get a landscaping company to take care of my four-acre yard for $25 by explaining to them that my yard is seen by a lot of people who drive by and it would be great exposure for them. Next week I get ANOTHER landscaping company to take the same bait. The next week another. I would keep doing it until eventually they wise up and stopped caring for my lawn for so little money. However, if someone offered me the same deal for electrical work, I would tell them where to stick it.

Until musicians refuse those kinds of deals, bar owners will keep getting away with it. Why would I pay you a fair price for the SAME service someone will do for pennies? It just wouldn't make good business sense.

If I can get some dipstick to take care of 4 acres for $25, you can bet the guy who charges (a fair price) $100 or more per visit won't get my business. And as long as I find a steady supply of dipsticks, there is no reason for me to pay more.

So, the short version is, it is 100% the fault of your fellow musicians. The bar owners are just being smart with their money.

I get your point about longevity. But, like you said, most bar owners don't see past the ends of their noses. Here's another thing to consider. For your plan to work, you would have to somehow get pretty much every band in your market on board. Why? Well, band A brings in a lot of people, gets paid, goes home no problem. Band B brings in hardly anyone, gets a few bucks, doesn't piss and moan about it, no problem. Band C (your band) comes along and tries to change the dynamic of the entire market with one lofty speech, and the club owners will likely say "Who the heck are you trying to tell me how to run my business?" Whereas, if pretty much ALL the bands in the area carry the same flag so to speak, it just may work (but even still I doubt it).