Annoying issue playing standing.

[Outbush]

Awesome explination, thanks!! so I possible solution would be eliminate de diving that obligates me to hold the neck from diving, which will give me totally freedom fingering across the neck and I can achieve that changing the tuners or/and with a double strap or re positioning the bass by adding a straplock somewhere behind my bass. (?)

I have lightweight tuners & they make a real difference to neck dive - and tune way more smoothly than the original ones. The DuoStrap is just a relevatiion in comfort & stability for me but it might take you a couple of weeks messing with the adjustment to get it perfect. But the first and cheapest one is move that rear strap pin up 4” & that will help heaps. If money is an issue I’d go tuners & pin mod first as it will also move the nut closer to you and get your left wrist comfortable. But the DuoStrap should be on your shopping list when you can IMHO.

After that, start making that adjustment to your playing position to get the bass into a position that keeps your wrist and forearm nice and comfortable. And good luck - my playing is way better now simply because I’m no longer fighting my bass so there is a real benefit to getting these little things right - for you.

 

[10emmanuel]

I have lightweight tuners & they make a real difference to neck dive - and tune way more smoothly than the original ones. The DuoStrap is just a relevatiion in comfort & stability for me but it might take you a couple of weeks messing with the adjustment to get it perfect. But the first and cheapest one is move that rear strap pin up 4” & that will help heaps. If money is an issue I’d go tuners & pin mod first as it will also move the nut closer to you and get your left wrist comfortable. But the DuoStrap should be on your shopping list when you can IMHO.

After that, start making that adjustment to your playing position to get the bass into a position that keeps your wrist and forearm nice and comfortable. And good luck - my playing is way better now simply because I’m no longer fighting my bass so there is a real benefit to getting these little things right - for you.

I agree. Its been frustrating because now practicing in different positions I feel I can't play, its like almost learn the fingering again. But well, its fir a good purpose .
Thanks again!

 

[vindibona1]

Awesome explination, thanks!! so I possible solution would be eliminate de diving that obligates me to hold the neck from diving, which will give me totally freedom fingering across the neck and I can achieve that changing the tuners or/and with a double strap or re positioning the bass by adding a straplock somewhere behind my bass. (?)

Let me try to illustrate what he was saying about button position. BTW... You don't need expensive metal strap locks. I use the silicone washer type for about $1-$2 each and they have never failed me. But I don't need "quick release".

I would just leave the lower button where it is, buy another button and install it as prescribed. Just make sure the button you buy is deep enough that you can get whatever locking mechanism over it while the strap is installed.

 

[10emmanuel]

Hello mates!
I wanted to share with you this annoying issue that I have when I play standing. Its just uncomfortable and makes my shoulder and hand hurt.

I had advices from a couple people who said " you must sit, place the bass where you like the most, then put the strap on and get up, that way the bass will stay in that place "
So I did that!
This is how I play while sitting. My most confortable position.
View attachment 4685774
notice that 1)my leg fits in the curve of the bass's body, 2) the body does not exceed my middle chest and my left arm makes an almost 90ª when playing in the 1th fret.

Then I put the strap on (third image )


And as soon as I get up, the bass shift position. ( see the red lines ) The reason of this is that I rest my right arm in the body, so that the bass goes forward and up.
I tried to avoid this but the ONLY way to maintain the bass in the exact same position is not resting at all my right arm, which I find impossible.
Also, the strap falls straight from my neck, so if I wanted to bring the bass back on purpose , the strap would be even pushing me back forward .
View attachment 4685782 View attachment 4685779

So I hope you understand the idea and could give advices. Does that happen or happened to any of you guys?

Thanks!!

@vindibona1 @Cutter8 @Outbush

I'v been experimenting with two changes following everyone's advices and I would like to get feedbacks about them!

Number one, I change the way I rest mu thumb, it used to be placing only the extreme of the thumb but that made my whirst bent too much no matter how high the bass was (photo 1 ). By resting the complete surface of the thumb my hand is not bent anymore ( photo 2)

QUESTION 1) now the plucking fingers changed too, they point more diagonal than perpendicular to the strings, which I dont know if that's good or bad. what do you say?
see photos below.

And then the second change and more significant was attaching a chord from the nut to the strap to avoid diving and I gotta say, it changed drastically !!
Now my left hand is completely free to move though the neck.
Also I found a certain high where any of my both hand bent.

In the last photo I am resting my arm a little too lazily agains the bass, by lifting a little my elbow that would change.

Only thing I found in this new position is that my left shoulder gets tired when playing in the 1-5 frets, I guess its a matter of getting used to it or just adjust this new position to a lower/higher/ closer nut to my head.

Having said this, I never thought how annoying a diving neck could be!

In the future, if this new position works long time, I will experiment adding strap locks somewhere in the bass so that I dont have to hold it with the chord.
Feedbacks? ( specially about my plucking fingers )

Thanks!!

 

[J_Bass]

I still think you should just get rid of that slippery strap and get a leather one.

 

[SteveCS]

...
And then the second change and more significant was attaching a chord from the nut to the strap to avoid diving and I gotta say, it changed drastically !!
...

Maybe install a hootenanny button?

 

[Outbush]

@vindibona1 @Cutter8 @Outbush

I'v been experimenting with two changes following everyone's advices and I would like to get feedbacks about them!View attachment 4690656View attachment 4690657

Number one, I change the way I rest mu thumb, it used to be placing only the extreme of the thumb but that made my whirst bent too much no matter how high the bass was (photo 1 ). By resting the complete surface of the thumb my hand is not bent anymore ( photo 2)

QUESTION 1) now the plucking fingers changed too, they point more diagonal than perpendicular to the strings, which I dont know if that's good or bad. what do you say?
see photos below.
View attachment 4690660 View attachment 4690661

And then the second change and more significant was attaching a chord from the nut to the strap to avoid diving and I gotta say, it changed drastically !!
Now my left hand is completely free to move though the neck.
Also I found a certain high where any of my both hand bent.
View attachment 4690668 View attachment 4690669 View attachment 4690671
In the last photo I am resting my arm a little too lazily agains the bass, by lifting a little my elbow that would change.

Only thing I found in this new position is that my left shoulder gets tired when playing in the 1-5 frets, I guess its a matter of getting used to it or just adjust this new position to a lower/higher/ closer nut to my head.

Having said this, I never thought how annoying a diving neck could be!

In the future, if this new position works long time, I will experiment adding strap locks somewhere in the bass so that I dont have to hold it with the chord.
Feedbacks? ( specially about my plucking fingers )

Thanks!!

That left wrist looks like it is in a very good position, nice and straight and flat. Not carrying any weight on that left wrist is very important too and I really like that idea with the chord to the nut. (Your left shoulder will get more used to it. I am only playing electric bass currently and whenever I play my electric double bass - EUB - my left shoulder gets pretty tired fast but it gets stronger very quickly). If you do move the strap button at the bridge or add another one it should also have the effect of moving the nut towards you a little whilst playing too which has an even greater impact on play-ability IMHO.

I think the changes to the right hand look better from the perspective of being able to mute strings and from a comfort position too. However, I do rest my right arm both when playing with fingers and a pick - if I don't I simply won't be accurate jumping between strings either with fingers or a pick. (On that point, if you don't play with a pick with all these changes being made now is the time to start. There are great sounds to be unlocked playing with a pick and buy one of the pack with 5 or 6 different thicknesses and try them all to see what suits you best - I have a couple of sizes I like and they give me different sounds).

Now if money is no issue, lightweight tuners certainly make a difference from my experience but I don't know how heavy the Peavey Tuners are - someone here on TB will. If they're light keep them. And, yep, a better strap. I think the GruvGear Duostrap is just the best thing available especially for guys like me who are no longer getting any younger! You're a bit younger than me so a quality wide strap with a grippy soft material might be just the thing perhaps?

But for an update right now - looks good! PS very nice bass that Peavey.

 

[jdthaddeus]

I had this problem until I started sitting in the "classical" position with a strap so my bass is in the same place when I sit or stand

 

[10emmanuel]

I still think you should just get rid of that slippery strap and get a leather one.

I swear to god is not slippery

 

[10emmanuel]

Maybe install a hootenanny button?

also

 

[10emmanuel]

That left wrist looks like it is in a very good position, nice and straight and flat. Not carrying any weight on that left wrist is very important too and I really like that idea with the chord to the nut. (Your left shoulder will get more used to it. I am only playing electric bass currently and whenever I play my electric double bass - EUB - my left shoulder gets pretty tired fast but it gets stronger very quickly). If you do move the strap button at the bridge or add another one it should also have the effect of moving the nut towards you a little whilst playing too which has an even greater impact on play-ability IMHO.

I think the changes to the right hand look better from the perspective of being able to mute strings and from a comfort position too. However, I do rest my right arm both when playing with fingers and a pick - if I don't I simply won't be accurate jumping between strings either with fingers or a pick. (On that point, if you don't play with a pick with all these changes being made now is the time to start. There are great sounds to be unlocked playing with a pick and buy one of the pack with 5 or 6 different thicknesses and try them all to see what suits you best - I have a couple of sizes I like and they give me different sounds).

Now if money is no issue, lightweight tuners certainly make a difference from my experience but I don't know how heavy the Peavey Tuners are - someone here on TB will. If they're light keep them. And, yep, a better strap. I think the GruvGear Duostrap is just the best thing available especially for guys like me who are no longer getting any younger! You're a bit younger than me so a quality wide strap with a grippy soft material might be just the thing perhaps?

But for an update right now - looks good! PS very nice bass that Peavey.

I think the tuners must be heavy because they are huge. I dont mind changing them, Its just I want to keep the peavey in the original state. So changing them will be the last alternative.
This peavey is the thirds bass I have, I had always inexpensive basses I must say but I played other expensive ones and I absolutely love the neck if the Peavey. So smooth, great action, plus, I am attracted to old fashion things LOL.

Thanks again!

 

[ryco]

I don't even think about it. Sitting and standing are two different animals.
When standing my bass is pretty much over my nuts. Not super low.
Even slapping I don't wear basses particularly high, and I thump parallel thumb up.

 

[vindibona1]

@10emmanuel I think you're on the right track but not all the way there yet, in two areas. Your standing picture still makes you look cramped. I'd move the bass a bit more the left. It's better, but have to be more free to get around the neck. As for your right hand...

One of the jobs of your right hand is to mute strings so that you don't get unwanted tones from sympathetic vibrations and harmonics or unwanted contact with strings that you don't want to sound. (IMO), since you're building new habits now, I would totally forget about ANCHORING your thumb and adopt what is called the "floating thumb technique". It may help your arm find a better position as well.

What the "floating thumb" does, is lays on top of the strings rather than anchoring to any point, traveling south as you move to the higher strings and retreating north as the notes/strings descend. Muting becomes important when playing super clean is critical (all the time?). So your left/fretting hand mutes the higher strings from the south and your plucking hand's thumb mutes the strings from the north.

Some folks use a "modified" floating thumb technique by RESTING the thumb on the string above the one they are plucking and work their way up and down in a stair-step fashion while others just let the hand and thumb slide up and down, not resting on any particular string. I think I use a hybrid of both. I guess I'm fortunate that I came from a guitar folk/finger picking background and never adopted an anchor and when I started on bass as a kid back then we were using thumbs or picks.

While not the best video, this might help illustrate what I mean.

 

[vindibona1]

@vindibona1 @Cutter8 @Outbush

And then the second change and more significant was attaching a chord from the nut to the strap to avoid diving and I gotta say, it changed drastically !!
Now my left hand is completely free to move though the neck.

Only thing I found in this new position is that my left shoulder gets tired when playing in the 1-5 frets, I guess its a matter of getting used to it or just adjust this new position to a lower/higher/ closer nut to my head.

Having said this, I never thought how annoying a diving neck could be!

In the future, if this new position works long time, I will experiment adding strap locks somewhere in the bass so that I dont have to hold it with the chord.
Feedbacks? ( specially about my plucking fingers )

Thanks!!

Wow... I missed the cord attachment initially. That's kind of brilliant. But obviously that's not a permanent. solution. In case you've missed it, I gave you two solutions, but I'll repeat myself because I think you're overlooking cheap answers that will totally solve your neck diving issue.

1) Get a 3.5" leather strap that is not lined. The wide width will distribute the pressure and padding should not be needed unless your bass exceeds 10 pounds. Here's a link to the model strap I use and recommend. $14. You can afford that even if it's a fail. Just take some time to break it in and it becomes as subtle as a $40-$50 strap.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Y0CG0XU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

2) Add a button higher up toward your right shoulder which changes the way the bass balances.

What you are trying to achieve will be handled by the friction of a proper strap and/or adding that bottom button. But don't skip getting a new wider strap. If you look at the photo below, I am wearing the "neck diviest" bass I have, a 6 string bass, and it stays put with only the wider strap that is rough inside. Note the three basses from left to right in the background have the same strap (even the red one) as well as the 2nd shot that shows both the width and how I cut out a small section at the neck to avoid pressing on my neck vein. Another benefit of a single ply leather strap I should take my own advice and relocate the bottom button, but never felt the need.

 

[10emmanuel]

Wow... I missed the cord attachment initially. That's kind of brilliant. But obviously that's not a permanent. solution. In case you've missed it, I gave you two solutions, but I'll repeat myself because I think you're overlooking cheap answers that will totally solve your neck diving issue.

1) Get a 3.5" leather strap that is not lined. The wide width will distribute the pressure and padding should not be needed unless your bass exceeds 10 pounds. Here's a link to the model strap I use and recommend. $14. You can afford that even if it's a fail. Just take some time to break it in and it becomes as subtle as a $40-$50 strap.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Y0CG0XU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

2) Add a button higher up toward your right shoulder which changes the way the bass balances.

What you are trying to achieve will be handled by the friction of a proper strap and/or adding that bottom button. But don't skip getting a new wider strap. If you look at the photo below, I am wearing the "neck diviest" bass I have, a 6 string bass, and it stays put with only the wider strap that is rough inside. Note the three basses from left to right in the background have the same strap (even the red one) as well as the 2nd shot that shows both the width and how I cut out a small section at the neck to avoid pressing on my neck vein. Another benefit of a single ply leather strap I should take my own advice and relocate the bottom button, but never felt the need.

View attachment 4691621

View attachment 4691631

alright you convinced me . I will get that strap.

And about the floating thumb, the way a pluck now and always did was anchoring the thumb in the pick up or in the string above of the one I am playing, Now I keep that but with the subtle change I mentioned before. I tried implementing the completely floating thumb but I did not love it to be honest. I feel that the anchoring gives me a sort of strength to pluck. I am kinda heavy plucker. lol.
And I will bring the bass more to my center as you mention to see If I see betterment.

 

[vindibona1]

alright you convinced me . I will get that strap.

And about the floating thumb, the way a pluck now and always did was anchoring the thumb in the pick up or in the string above of the one I am playing, Now I keep that but with the subtle change I mentioned before. I tried implementing the completely floating thumb but I did not love it to be honest. I feel that the anchoring gives me a sort of strength to pluck. I am kinda heavy plucker. lol.
And I will bring the bass more to my center as you mention to see If I see betterment.

If you're following the strings down and "touching" the strings as the scales descend you're ok. I would try to avoid "anchoring", which IMO is an unnecessary bad habit that people internalize and have difficulty getting rid of. When starting out is is always best to avoid habitualizing moves that will hamper you down the road and wiil take focus to change. You can see how small position changes are causing you to have to put mental energy just into positioning? You may want to seek out a top drawer bass instructor in your area and take one or two lessons just to have a set of eyes on you and make suggestions in real time.

When you get the strap it will be stiff and feel cheap. Work the crap out of it and it can get really nice. Some sort of lotion to soften it (on the skin side only). Then fold it over itself and roll the two layers over each other, putting pressure where it folds, pushing down as you roll it. It will take some time and elbow grease, but when it breaks in you'll like it much better.

One other thing to play with, that I've been working with myself is the DIRECTION of the pluck. I've been trying to pluck with more of a downward motion, sort of at a 45° angle to the bass instead of parallel with the body. It's almost like grazing the string with the fingers landing and resting on the string above. It sort of gives a nice full attack and the sound of the finger coming to rest on the next lowest (pitched) string just has a sound to it. Someone on the forum suggested that approach and it is one more arrow in my quiver, but I find myself using it a lot. I think that's how some folks always pluck the strings, and I can see why. But once you get the hand position thing in place, then next step is to listen for nuance of sound that you just can't get/do when the hands are badly out of position.

Good luck.

 

[10emmanuel]

If you're following the strings down and "touching" the strings as the scales descend you're ok. I would try to avoid "anchoring", which IMO is an unnecessary bad habit that people internalize and have difficulty getting rid of. When starting out is is always best to avoid habitualizing moves that will hamper you down the road and wiil take focus to change. You can see how small position changes are causing you to have to put mental energy just into positioning? You may want to seek out a top drawer bass instructor in your area and take one or two lessons just to have a set of eyes on you and make suggestions in real time.

When you get the strap it will be stiff and feel cheap. Work the crap out of it and it can get really nice. Some sort of lotion to soften it (on the skin side only). Then fold it over itself and roll the two layers over each other, putting pressure where it folds, pushing down as you roll it. It will take some time and elbow grease, but when it breaks in you'll like it much better.

One other thing to play with, that I've been working with myself is the DIRECTION of the pluck. I've been trying to pluck with more of a downward motion, sort of at a 45° angle to the bass instead of parallel with the body. It's almost like grazing the string with the fingers landing and resting on the string above. It sort of gives a nice full attack and the sound of the finger coming to rest on the next lowest (pitched) string just has a sound to it. Someone on the forum suggested that approach and it is one more arrow in my quiver, but I find myself using it a lot. I think that's how some folks always pluck the strings, and I can see why. But once you get the hand position thing in place, then next step is to listen for nuance of sound that you just can't get/do when the hands are badly out of position.

Good luck.

If you're following the strings down and "touching" the strings as the scales descend you're ok. I would try to avoid "anchoring", which IMO is an unnecessary bad habit that people internalize and have difficulty getting rid of. When starting out is is always best to avoid habitualizing moves that will hamper you down the road and wiil take focus to change. You can see how small position changes are causing you to have to put mental energy just into positioning? You may want to seek out a top drawer bass instructor in your area and take one or two lessons just to have a set of eyes on you and make suggestions in real time.

When you get the strap it will be stiff and feel cheap. Work the crap out of it and it can get really nice. Some sort of lotion to soften it (on the skin side only). Then fold it over itself and roll the two layers over each other, putting pressure where it folds, pushing down as you roll it. It will take some time and elbow grease, but when it breaks in you'll like it much better.

One other thing to play with, that I've been working with myself is the DIRECTION of the pluck. I've been trying to pluck with more of a downward motion, sort of at a 45° angle to the bass instead of parallel with the body. It's almost like grazing the string with the fingers landing and resting on the string above. It sort of gives a nice full attack and the sound of the finger coming to rest on the next lowest (pitched) string just has a sound to it. Someone on the forum suggested that approach and it is one more arrow in my quiver, but I find myself using it a lot. I think that's how some folks always pluck the strings, and I can see why. But once you get the hand position thing in place, then next step is to listen for nuance of sound that you just can't get/do when the hands are badly out of position.

Good luck.

Since the my new hanging position, I've plucking in a more parallel way with the strings ( sort of when you palm mute but not SO parallel ) and It feels good! Kinda more natural and in touch with the strings, makes you feel and sound different. Good attack!.

 

[vindibona1]

Since the my new hanging position, I've plucking in a more parallel way with the strings ( sort of when you palm mute but not SO parallel ) and It feels good! Kinda more natural and in touch with the strings, makes you feel and sound different. Good attack!.

I just want to make you aware of a phenomena when you're trying to change from one habitualized technique to another. If you're doing it right, for a time you might be confused as to which technique you're using at a given moment. If that happens, stop for a time. Rest for a few minutes, then resume, starting out conscious again. Sometimes I am playing and it doesn't come out clean because my right hand is on autopilot. I use a raking technique now often with the rest stroke. But sometimes I need to be plucking 1/2/1/2/1/2/1/2, for cleanliness even crossing strings. Even looking at my hands I sometimes don't know what my right is doing and I have to slow down and even count 1/2/1/2, looking at my hands. Habits are a curious thing.

 

[Outbush]

Its been a while - how are the changes going now?

 

[DianaBass]

And the other end of the spectrum.

View attachment 4686145

One of my favorite local players wears his like this. He put his bass on me the other night, and I felt like I was suffocating. However, I noticed that it DID make it easier to play. I also wanted to steal his bass...