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Annoying issue playing standing.

10emmanuel

10emmanuel

Sep 2, 2021
455
419
world
#1
Hello mates!
I wanted to share with you this annoying issue that I have when I play standing. Its just uncomfortable and makes my shoulder and hand hurt.

I had advices from a couple people who said " you must sit, place the bass where you like the most, then put the strap on and get up, that way the bass will stay in that place "
So I did that!
This is how I play while sitting. My most confortable position.
Screen Shot 2022-05-07 at 8.05.32 PM.png

notice that 1)my leg fits in the curve of the bass's body, 2) the body does not exceed my middle chest and my left arm makes an almost 90ª when playing in the 1th fret.

Then I put the strap on (third image )


And as soon as I get up, the bass shift position. ( see the red lines ) The reason of this is that I rest my right arm in the body, so that the bass goes forward and up.
I tried to avoid this but the ONLY way to maintain the bass in the exact same position is not resting at all my right arm, which I find impossible.
Also, the strap falls straight from my neck, so if I wanted to bring the bass back on purpose , the strap would be even pushing me back forward .
Screen Shot 2022-05-07 at 8.09.08 PM.png
Screen Shot 2022-05-07 at 8.08.10 PM.png


So I hope you understand the idea and could give advices. Does that happen or happened to any of you guys?

Thanks!!
 
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#2
Stop resting your arm lazily on top of the bass body: Just hold your elbow out a little farther so you have a nice straight line from your elbow to your plucking fingers, with no bend in your wrist.

Personally, I wear the bass while standing a little lower than I can when sitting: Letting the body sit a little lower makes it easier to do what I said above, as I don't have to "hold my elbow out a little farther" and it's easy to keep a straight wrist.
 
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#3
If you will place the bass a little higher on your chest, I think most of your problems will go away.

I kept a tall stool on stage where I just had to back up to it to take a load off. Where you position the bass should stay the same, sitting or standing.

It's not cool, but your wrists will thank you.

Good luck.
 
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#6
Ok, a few things look to be happening here, so... But before I start warning warning Will Robinson there will be some big, big generalizations so please bear with me. Everyone is so different - physically, the way were made/engineered so I'm working just off your photos. (It would be way easier in person but there you go...)

Firstly it is surprising how many players find playing more comfortable when sitting down. The first thing I will point out here is that with many, many basses (yours included) this moves the nut closer to your body. With less stretch out to the nut the bass actually feels more compact where-as actually what has happened is that you have reduced the compound angle at the wrist when the nut is closer to your body (your hand is closer to parallel to your forearm when you hold it out in front of you in the most relaxed comfortable manner). Incidentally, many bass players play around middle of the fretboard because its "faster" (partly true as the frets are closer together here than at the nut) and more "comfortable" - why?- the angle of their wrists doesn't change that much until they have to reach right out to the nut. (Interesting observation; watch Warwick, Alembic and other players who play basses with short top horns and they tend to spend a lot of time around that middle section of the neck. That's their interface of "sound" and comfort right there.)

Secondly, from your "comfortable" photo it appears to have the bass slightly angled away from you. To make that clearer, your bass is not parallel to the line of your shoulders but the neck is twisted out a bit. This position varies with everybody but logically if you replicate that angle when your standing you would feel more comfortable.

(Two last little questions then I will plough on. When you hold your left arm out in-front of you as it would be when you play with the palm flat in the same line as the forearm I'm thinking all your fingers point slightly to the right of that line. Possible your little finger is outside the line of your forearm too. Also your little finger is a fair bit shorter than your ring finger and your middle finger the longest?)

So, next... I would not normally disagree with The Low End Lobster on anything; he's a fabulous player, very knowledgeable about basses, bassists and styles, and does some of my favourite reviews. He's a very talented bloke, but I believe in this instance his advice to sling the bass lower is all wrong. If you drop the height of your bass the angle between your fingers reaching out to the frets and your forearm will become more acute, or even tighter. From what you have described and looking at your photos this is the opposite of what will suit you.

If you came to me with this problem I would suggest a change which would happen slowly. Long-term I would swing the bass back to actually be more parallel (not perfectly parallel but closer to parallel) with your shoulders and I would angle the bass more up like a classical guitarist.
By doing that, in your case,
1) we could keep your wrist angle the same relative to your forearm angle and the bass neck from the nut right up to the 10 or 12th fret so comfort etc wouldn't change or would get even better,
2) your 4th and little finger would have more reach on the fret board,
3) the strap would move away from your neck more across your shoulder making the bass more stable allowing you to reduce the grip of your fretting hand,
4) your right arm would effectively be further back and your fingers nearer the pickup for more tonal variation and in a much better position when using a pick and,
5) your right shoulder would be far more relaxed.

To achieve this I would drill the hole in the rear of the bass and reposition that strap pin about 100mm/4" up from where it is now which would let the strap come of the bass at a less vertical angle which would allow all these changes happen (we would work out the best position of the pin together though - 100mm is a guess based on your photos).

Not every bass fits every player and not every technique suits every player. There are great players who sling their basses super low, have an very acute angle at their fretting wrist and would outplay me with my almost-classical guitar position every day of the week; and that position your school music teacher might have told you was "wrong" - well it works so well for those guys and girls it just can't be wrong can it? So what I have said here is all based on the supplied photos - so for all those who have read this far please recognize I'm just trying to help and I'm not providing a one-size-fits-all solution and dissing this guy
upload_2022-5-10_14-52-9.jpeg


Paul Simonon et al.
(What a great photo...)
 
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#7
Good Points @Outbush.

Your observation that the nut moves closer to the body when standing is correct. I play a lot in the upper region on my six string and standing makes that harder. Specially when playing on the lower strings higher on the neck and when playing certain chords higher on the neck. It just feels slightly more awkward and less comfortable than with sitting. I don’t think there is much you can do about that. That’s why I prefer sitting with fusion gigs, even though that’s less cool. Another reason for sitting is that the six string basses are really heavy.

Also one other remark: wearing your bass higher while standing is also easier for slapping.
 
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#8
Get a bass with a longer upper horn or a shorter scale or both.

But until you do that, I'd leave the bass where it is on the shoulder and just pull the headstock up closer to my head. This will rotate the pluck zone away from the 'rest your arm on it' location and bring your left hand to a more comfortable position for the fret 1-5 positions.

It would benefit you long term to work on lifting your right elbow up to take the stress off your right wrist and left shoulder. Your deltoid will whine at you for a bit but it'll adjust quickly enough if you practice regularly.
 
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#9
Sitting and standing is always going to feel different. Your positioning in both looks normal to me. If your goal is to be comfortable standing, then practice standing up and stop playing sitting so much. You'll always be most comfortable doing what you're used to.

By the way, I personally agree with the preference of having the bass hang on the strap in roughly the same height as it would be on the lap. However it will always swing over laterally as you noted. That puts the bass quite a bit higher on your body than many rock'n'roll types who seem to have the bass closer to their knees. It's all personal preference and you should do what works for you, but one hidden benefit to hanging your bass high: no buckle rash on any of my instruments!
 
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#13
Hawk256 said:
When I was in my first band, it wasn't "cool" to have your instrument up too high. Had to get used to wearing it a little lower than I preferred. Glad things have changed in that aspect.
Click to expand...
What a nonsense: who else than the bass player can determine which posture is appropriate to play his/her instrument? Do we tell drummers or keyboard players what stool height is "cool"?
As a listener, I couldn't care less how musicians look, dress, or hold their instruments. The only thing that matters to me is what I hear them playing; if the bass player has to sit, or hold the his/her bass this way or that way, or make stupid face expressions to play good music, then so what?
 
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#15
I had this same problem in the beginning of my gigging days.

I agree with the notion of moving the rear strap pin to reposition the bass for your individual needs. I've always done this to an instrument that feels uncomfortable.

That also allowed me to adopt a classical guitar position while sitting, which over time has become more comfortable than over the right leg position.

Once you get the strap pin in a comfortable position, the bass will almost want to go between the legs naturally. You then lengthen your strap until the bottom curvature of the bass body sits just on top of the left leg.

One way to test this without drilling a new hole for the pin right away. Would be to use a wood clamp, and small thin rope, string, or twisted rag. You run the rope/etc. through your strap hole loop and then on both sides of the bass body. Now use the wood clamp to secure the rope pieces to the bass. Use a rag between the clamp to protect the bass bodies finish.

Now you can try out new strap pin positions without drilling a hole first.

Over the years I've found that I like the bass hung lower when standing than is actually possible while sitting. For this reason I have 2 main straps of different lengths that I can just swap out when I stand. That only works for me though on most basses after I reposition the rear strap pin.

One bass that I find to be almost already perfect position is the Ibanez EHB1000. But that's also due to it's light weight and lack of a headstock to cause neck dive.
 
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#16
Different opinions here. Choose what is more ergonomic for you. The myth 'sitting like standing' is only a myth.
From the pictures I see only one thing I could criticize, and that is that your right shoulder seems way higher that left. If this is true most of your time playing, it might result in back pain.
I think that you should give some thought to the concept 'bigger muscles work, the fingers only touch'. If you can stand straight, your deltoids hold the upper arms, your bicepses hold the lower arms, and your fingers are free to do anything without additional stresses, you've won. It's hard to explain though.
I would check Talkingbass Mark Smith videos about home position and left hand pivot to grasp the general idea of free left hand.
For the right, I would study floating thumb technique. Todd Johnson videos for start probably; perhaps someone can recommend better resource. You don't have to play floating thumb way, but you'll do yourself a favor if you can understand that you should hold the bass body with an easy but active touch of the lower arm.
With this knowledge you can play the bass healthily with short or long strap, and you can choose your own preference.
Please don't take me word for word, my English is not good enough to know exact terms for hand parts.
 
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#19
Yeah, that bass looks awkward in your hands and (IMO) no remedial actions will help. If in your shoes, I'd be looking for something with an attenuated footprint and 32" scale in the interest of ergonomics. My first choice would be a Yamaha Motion, the second would be a Kubicki Ex Factor but they're just too durn expensive. The Fender P is virtually a "gold standard" but not for everyone. I hate to spend $$ but, in your case, I think the investment would be a wise one.

Riis
 

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