I notice the speaker is rated for 500w continuous, but this design hits Xmax at 237w. Would it take a bigger cab and/or port to reach Xmax at a higher wattage? Cab design could be a fascinating hobby.
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Another DIY cab thread. Loud, Small, and Cheap. 22 pounds that pounds.
- Thread starter Lowactnsatsfctn
- Start date
The 237 watts is pretty darn respectable. Lots of this type of speaker don't have that much.
Bigger box would allow deeper bass extension but along with it lower power handling. Port tuning also affect response and power handling as the port sort of "keeps control" of cone excursion for a bit either side of tuning but then loses it.
Thanks, Will. Rereading my post, I also want to clarify that I wasn't taking any issue with the design, which is impressive. I was just curious how all the factors affect each other. I assumed it was the cabinet that was contributing to Xmax at less than the speaker's rated power handling.
This is why you have to consider more than the thermal rating of the voice coil. It's a marketing number.
According to the PDF on the mfg website, they have an example that has excursion limited maximum SPL at 1 meter of 119.4 dB. That's pretty darn loud for a single 12" speaker.
Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
I've ordered the driver, parts, and lumber. Gonna start on the build next week. Having built a BFM Omni 15, this one is just too simple a build to resist.
I now use a pair of TC Electronic RS112 cabs. They're really nice at 14x14x19 and 31 pounds. But to have a cab that's smaller and 1/3 lighter would be really nice. If I like the sound I'll build a second and sell the RS112s.
The Aguilar TH500 will give me plenty of EQ power to adjust my tone.
I now use a pair of TC Electronic RS112 cabs. They're really nice at 14x14x19 and 31 pounds. But to have a cab that's smaller and 1/3 lighter would be really nice. If I like the sound I'll build a second and sell the RS112s.
The Aguilar TH500 will give me plenty of EQ power to adjust my tone.
I don't think you did. With one of my tablets (windows 8), it makes any words you've done searches for turn in to Links.
Its rated for 500 max, 250 continuous. Sure I could have squeezed another 13 watts out of it, but that wouldn't really make a difference. Id have to change the cab size and I really prefer to get it to work with whole numbers for my builds. If there is no way around it, Ill deal with it, the rack & pinion system DeWalt table saws use makes it a breeze. The 2nd, and main reason I didn't build it for higher power handling, is because 200ish watts to this thing is F%^#ng LOUD. If I need more than this can do, a second speaker is needed. Plus when I modeled the enclosure, I also plugged in a few different EQ setups that matched the EQ frequencies of my Bass and amp. The way I designed it, it should have a pretty smooth frequency response to it, but with my gear, it should be even more fine haha. After all, it is custom for my needs.
These are 8 ohm speakers. if you built a 212 cab and wired then parallel, you'd have a 4ohm 212 that wouldn't need much power to get going, and et up there if you ever put some juice to it
Oh, it does get loud. With the strong mids, it doesnt really get buried in sound, the tone is just so........Meaty.
If the TH500 is anything like an LM3, it should be an awesome fit
Keep us posted on your progress. Compared to a BFM cab, this one should be cake.
My mistake. I thought it was 500 continuous. So wow, you got all out of that one, and such a compact design, too. I'm all about solid mids, so I'll keep an eye on this one. Thanks!
Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
While I wait for parts and lumber, I've been making up a checklist of the build steps. This morning I remembered that, since I carry a small milk crate for cables, I'll align the cabinet feet so they sit nicely atop the open crate.
Here is a quick sound clip from my cab. For this, I used a cheap Behringer mic, since my recording interface doesn't have a phantom power option. The spec sheet for the mic says it has a strong roll off under 80HZ and a steady upward slope starting around 5k. Hard to say how accurate those are, but I will say, the recording though good head phones sounds slightly louder in some of the higher frequencies and a little thinner overall. head phones don't vibrate through the floor the same way either.
This is the mic placement.The bass used is a MusicMan Sterling 4H with month old EB hybrid slinkies, PU's in Series, 3band EQ set flat. Amp is a MarkBass LM3, All EQ's are set flat, no VLE, no VPF. The only change is plucking position and amount of slop haha
Thanks very much for posting the sound clip. I understand that the lowest frequencies won't be there due to the microphone. To my ear, much of the upper harmonics are missing. It sounds like the tone knob on the bass was totally rolled off. This is surprising given the response curve which B&C has on their website and given that you had everything set flat. I suppose that mic placement could be a factor. It could also be that MB amp isn't flat with all the knobs set at 12 (just guessing, I don't know how they configure their amps).
FWIW, I'm listening through AKG K240DF headphones which have a lot of detail, and also some full range CV bookshelf speakers (not hi-fi but still pretty decent).
FWIW, I'm listening through AKG K240DF headphones which have a lot of detail, and also some full range CV bookshelf speakers (not hi-fi but still pretty decent).
That raises an interesting question. Do you need mids to "punch" through the mix, or upper harmonics to "cut" through the mix? I favor a mid-heavy EQ myself, and generally don't like bright "hi-fi" tone. Based on what I hear through my garden-variety desktop speakers, I'd dial up a bit more edge at the amp, but it's within a click or two of where I'd want it. All in all, this cab serves up the meatballs. Thanks for the clip.
You're welcome, that's what this site is for after all. So we can share thoughts experiences and bad jokes. After reading this, I went back and played recorded music through the cab to see what the highs were like. Its fairly bright for a 12, but I'm sure a lot of players would want a horn on it. The strings I recorded that with also have about 6 gigs on them, so they are very broken in. When I restring, I'll make some more clips
Both. For my current project, a bright sound doesn't work as well.
That's the beauty of a relatively flat sound, that you can dial up what ever you need and squeeze the rest with technique. The Sterling also seems to change sound once the volume knob is dimed. At low volumes, its kind of tamed, but full throttle, its just.... different.
After playing some music through these, I'm convinced I need 3 more. 1 for a matching cab and 2 for a build to replace some 65lb PA mains, but that's another thread
And a pic for Rick. These are the top braces. I put them in after I cut for the handle. You don't have to, I just find it easier and it always lines up that way
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Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
Thanks for the top brace pic. My original plan was tee-nuts for the handle itself and drywall screws for the handle-cup. But this will let me use DW screws for the whole handle assembly.
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Its pretty loud. I played music from my phone on it through my LM3 (gain @9 and master @12) on my deck and I could hear it good at the back or the property (1/3 acre). If its loud inside, I can make out the song in the middle of my front yard. I'm convince that a PA based off of 2 of these would handle pretty much anything short of a big outdoors event or a metal show where Broootal lows are expected.
It hangs with the drummer I play with no problem, and has carried a 35*70 foot room. The biggest room I play, needs PA though. A rig that would cover that room would be to loud for me to play in front of.
How it compares with the 410?
Hard to say, since I've never played their 410 out side of Guitar Center at low volumes and don't know for certain what driver it uses.
The 10" (10CL51) and 12" version of this driver (12CL64) are very different. The 10" has more Xmax and goes much higher(4K Hz vs the 12's 3K) but oddly, doesn't go as low, handle near as much power and is roughly 2Db less sensitive. Cone area of 2 12" speakers, is pretty much the same area as 3 10" speakers. Assuming the MarkBass 10" is a close variant of the B&C 10CL51 (going by looks, of what I've seen in a 210 cab), I would say that the math puts them close as far as max SPL goes, with the 410 being somewhat louder.
I could be way off too. If the Markbass 410 speaker is based off of the B&C 10HPL64, it should take the whole 800 it claims and get much louder.
Maybe some one who knows more than I will chime in and set us straight, but going off of looks alone, it seems that the use they a variant of the 10CL51 and the 12HPL76drivers.
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Nice. If I were to use these in a build, I'd add a tweeter or maybe even a midrange driver. So the 12" seems better suited for me.
In any case I've been very impressed with the 410's dispersion and volume. Mine is old, but it gets very loud much before my LMII puts out all of the 300W. Haven't had the chance to stress-test it due to shaking rooms.
Will need to check on the drivers but I'm reluctant to open it without other reason at the moment, also since I seem to have lost all decent screwdrivers.
For PA or a brighter bass cab, id cross it straight to a compression horn and skip the mid.
If its not broke dont fix it. I wouldn't pull that cab apart either. Maybe shine a light through the port and try to get a decent picture, but any more than that isn't worth it
To keep with TB traditions, pics or it didn't happen. The power cable and 1' speakon cable are rolled up on the back of the amp. MB says 6.39lbs for the head.
If its not broke dont fix it. I wouldn't pull that cab apart either. Maybe shine a light through the port and try to get a decent picture, but any more than that isn't worth it
To keep with TB traditions, pics or it didn't happen. The power cable and 1' speakon cable are rolled up on the back of the amp. MB says 6.39lbs for the head.
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Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
By this weekend I should be ready to test my copy of the cabinet. I've been taking my time, one glue joint at a time. The first test is for air leaks, and if that passes then I'll plug in a bass and whack on it. Then out come the guts for the handle cutout, sanding, finishing, and reinstalling the guts.
those b&c drivers look more and more interesting to me. specs close to the kappalites everyone is raving about and more than a quarter cheaper.
The Speaker you used is 109€ here, a 12" kappalite is 199. do they nearly keep up with those?
I'd love to make a 12/6 with the 12CL76 or even your 12CL64. With that speaker I believe I could keep a cab in the range of 250€ (~300-350$) and go looouuuud
The Speaker you used is 109€ here, a 12" kappalite is 199. do they nearly keep up with those?
I'd love to make a 12/6 with the 12CL76 or even your 12CL64. With that speaker I believe I could keep a cab in the range of 250€ (~300-350$) and go looouuuud
It would seem that my junker rehearsal cabinet just blew up. So I might just end up building a 2x12 version of this. Would you build it with a single shared space for the two woofers, or put a baffle in between and have both have their own compartment? Kinda new to cab design.
I also agree that a tweeter is probably a much easier and economical solution than a mid driver.
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