See post #155 for clarity of the post you quoted, I think you're misunderstanding what Frank was talking about.
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Another gig where we quit early because the crowd left.
- Thread starter 51PRI
- Start date
Yes, me and millions of other people. There’s a reason why jazz doesn’t fill arenas. Nothing wrong with it, but it is what it is.
I have read a lot of your threads. Entertaining for sure. If no new material is the stated goal of the band, then I wouldn't be in the band. Our cover band rehearses 2 times, 3 times max, per month. The purpose of the rehearsal is to add new material. Not one or two songs, four or five at a go. I cannot imagine not wanting to better myself as a band and as a musician. Talk about a lazy group of people. Ugh.
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Have you had anyone go around and ask people what they thought of the band and the volume that you are playing at?
I/we check with the audience during the first set! (we play for lots of middle-aged and older folks).
If not I'll ask when we go on our first break.
A trick I used this weekend was to tell the crowd "stick around, we saved all of the good songs for the next set" before taking a break. That got a laugh and we kept the crowd, even had a encore request.
Do any of your members have a wife/gf/family member/significant other that has been to these shows? We would frequently check with them after sound check to see what things felt like out where the crowd is sitting. Could they converse (if we were doing covers as a "background entertainment" cover band). If you're worried about FOH being too loud, having one of your singers who's already done sound checking standing in front of the stage in the patron area of the bar is helpful.
I wouldn't put too much stock in "they're still booking us". Plenty of threads on here about how a ton of bar owners are absolutely clueless. Plenty of bars out there where the owner thinks all it takes to have a music venue is a ramshackle stage, cheap PA they got at a yard sale, and drunk bartender Jerry's cousin who EQ's his own spotify is a perfect sound man that will work for 3 free beers. Frequently it leads to a subpar performance in a subpar bar that cannot decide if it wants to be a watering hole for conversation or a place where they sell alcohol to people focusing on an entertaining performance.
In my opinion, it'd behoove y'all to hash out and try to fit that before they decide "woe is me, the unprofitable bar owner, I just cannot figure out slapping speakers down on a 2 inch lifted wooden box hasn't lead to my bar being the young'ns new spot to spend their meager income. Time to stop booking bands". Could also be a poor crowd for y'all.
You've mentioned in other threads about the set list. If y'all aren't jiving with making sense in the gigs, aren't jiving on schedule, and aren't agreeing/progressing with your music catalog it's probably time to leave. Starting over suuuuuuuuuuuuucks. I get it, but it's worth it to rip off the bandaid now instead of wasting time.
I wouldn't put too much stock in "they're still booking us". Plenty of threads on here about how a ton of bar owners are absolutely clueless. Plenty of bars out there where the owner thinks all it takes to have a music venue is a ramshackle stage, cheap PA they got at a yard sale, and drunk bartender Jerry's cousin who EQ's his own spotify is a perfect sound man that will work for 3 free beers. Frequently it leads to a subpar performance in a subpar bar that cannot decide if it wants to be a watering hole for conversation or a place where they sell alcohol to people focusing on an entertaining performance.
In my opinion, it'd behoove y'all to hash out and try to fit that before they decide "woe is me, the unprofitable bar owner, I just cannot figure out slapping speakers down on a 2 inch lifted wooden box hasn't lead to my bar being the young'ns new spot to spend their meager income. Time to stop booking bands". Could also be a poor crowd for y'all.
You've mentioned in other threads about the set list. If y'all aren't jiving with making sense in the gigs, aren't jiving on schedule, and aren't agreeing/progressing with your music catalog it's probably time to leave. Starting over suuuuuuuuuuuuucks. I get it, but it's worth it to rip off the bandaid now instead of wasting time.
I don't think that "no new material" is the actual stated goal of the band. It's just that the drummer had said that he isn't going to be spending time working on parts. I take it to mean that he won't be working on parts at home and won't spend a lot of time trying to play the "right" drum part, either, but might be willing to show up and go over a new song once or twice to get it good enough to play. I think the band leader and the lead guitarist will be okay with that as well. I, on the other hand, in most of my other bands, have been happy to take the time to work on the small parts and get them right, maybe not N4N but at least and all of us playing the same thing. I've had to get used to that not being anyone else's mindset.
At that last gig we played "Simple Man" off the cuff (it was a request) and a BL original song that he had sent to us on an email. Both came off "okay" with no rehearsal but they were both very simple songs.
The BL came by today to pay me and he mentioned maybe getting together to rehearse and pick up some new material. I'm fine with that but we'll see if it happens.
This right here would send me looking for another band, can't stand this kind of LAZY BS!
Life is too short to waste on fools like that.
What a tool....
What you're describing is a popular, successful formula for cover bands. I've done it; We all probably have.
I've been with a band as a regular member since January that's got a setlist so long that there's new material for me almost every Fri/Sat night. I was given the original setlist a year ago when I subbed for a couple dates, but I suspect it was more high-points to get through the gigs. I also suspect the BL doesn't actually have a comprehensive setlist written down - It's just every song out of probably 400 rattling around in his head that he's been playing and singing his whole life.
Here's the kicker: I usually don't know something new is coming until the BL calls it out on stage. I'll then give him a "keep your fretting hand in view" stare over the top of my glasses, we get through it, sometimes stumbling through the first verse, sometimes nailing it. I make a quick voice-to-text note on my phone, add it to my own master list at home and learn it properly before next week's gigs. We may it again next week, we may not come back to it for a month; It's now part of my home practice routine.
It's not exactly a lazy situation - everyone is reliable, professional, seasoned, chill, easy to work with and a good hang - It's just forcing me to be a better musician in a way that works a different side of my brain, and helps me use one of my ADD superpowers, one that I continue to try to keep sharp by regularly attending a local-working-player jam.
Someday I may be privy to learn all the songs; I'll probably start pushing for new ones then - Maybe I can come here and complain about it.
If someone has 400 songs in their head then they are ahead of the game. I am more referring to the bands that have maybe 40 songs, have been together for years, and just don't want to add anything else out of pure laziness. You see those threads on TB and I have heard first hand from other musicians of being that situation.
Personally, I like working off of, and have almost always worked off, set lists. Unless it is a Saturday afternoon jam. I would not want to find myself in the position where a BL calls out a song and I have absolutely no clue what the song is. And that goes for 95% of all country stuff. But that's just me. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
Current band pad is huge, I'd guess 200 songs but no way to count them or even know whether he has brought all the pads..So, yep, I learn what is in his song list when he calls them.
This fridays gig he has asked for my set list...as in ones I've made notes of, which can sometimes just be the title and key. (This means I'm going to be busking the intervals as I don't need much more)
But there are quite a few variations on the answer to the question, ' do you know this'
That may simply be that I've heard it, can hear the intervals so lets try it.
I have so many songs now..probably 50 or 60, that I'm splitting them out into an 80's banging set, and a sunday chilled session of Americana.
Everyone does 80's and its useful to have them in the locker, but I think the real difference the band could make is with the Americana chilled set.
The gig will become which set the event requires after discussions with the booker.
This fridays gig he has asked for my set list...as in ones I've made notes of, which can sometimes just be the title and key. (This means I'm going to be busking the intervals as I don't need much more)
But there are quite a few variations on the answer to the question, ' do you know this'
That may simply be that I've heard it, can hear the intervals so lets try it.
I have so many songs now..probably 50 or 60, that I'm splitting them out into an 80's banging set, and a sunday chilled session of Americana.
Everyone does 80's and its useful to have them in the locker, but I think the real difference the band could make is with the Americana chilled set.
The gig will become which set the event requires after discussions with the booker.
Yep. I've worked off plenty of setlists, some flexible, some unwavering. I'm good with whatever works.
What I'm not good with is failing to entertain, usually because a band just can't get out of its own way and focus on the crowd.
If we're focused on the crowd, all things seem to come together, including performance cadence, song presentation, etc...
I had some friends in a popular regional band in the late 70's playing a hodgepodge of everything from country to big band to reggae to disco. They were immensely entertaining with a complete "show", and packed rooms all over the region. They were also great musicians, and one summer, had Chuck Leavell travelling with them on piano when he was between gigs.
I asked one of them once how they put together their act, and he told me they'd never rehearsed and they didn't put down a setlist. It just all came together as a result of gigging constantly. I couldn't understand how that worked. We gigged constantly, rehearsed, agonized over and followed a setlist to the T, and yet seemed stuck at a certain level of mediocre presentation.
I think I get it now. These guys were never stuck in their own heads - Everything was about the crowd.
Here's a clip of them from around 1980 in Tulsa.
With that statement, one of us would be leaving the band.
I wouldn't mind this but they need to cut it.
If the number needs work and they arent doing it, they aren't likely to make the next gig.
But yep, shouldn't be a factor in a mature band.
I see three factors here.
1) Too loud.
2) Old chestnuts that eventually even old farts get tired of hearing and young people deride as "grandma's music">
3) Extended guitar battles
Have you considered presenting these three factors to the rest of the band? Fiddly-dicking around with IEMs and equipment and such won't fix these issues. Playing quietly and playing songs that are attractive to the audience will.
I honestly can say that in my years on the rock and roll cover band circuit, I NEVER ONCE had anyone, audience member, bartender, club owner, NOT ONE TIME, say "Y'all aren't loud enough, you need to turn up!" And this was from the late 70s to the late 80s, before massive subwoofers came into fashion.
I'm totally with y'all on the volume thing, and I consider my keeping the volume right as part of my secret weapon to get gigs over other bands.
But just as a thought to throw in here... and assuming all the bands in the area aren't playing the same songs...
As for constantly adding new songs, I think that MIGHT be an overrated effort.
We're adding new songs, but mostly to improve the setlist, replacing duds, adding songs that are more danceable and and up-to-date,
but consider that if you have a good setlist that works with the crowd(s)...
they don't hear you every week like a house band, so after hearing other bands between your gigs, are they really gonna remember what your old setlist was?
And if they enjoyed it the last time (again, with other bands/setlists in between) is it really that big of a deal?
You may literally have gotten rid of a song or songs they liked to hear from you.
I think sometimes the band members are getting tired of the same songs, not necessarily the audience.
But just as a thought to throw in here... and assuming all the bands in the area aren't playing the same songs...
As for constantly adding new songs, I think that MIGHT be an overrated effort.
We're adding new songs, but mostly to improve the setlist, replacing duds, adding songs that are more danceable and and up-to-date,
but consider that if you have a good setlist that works with the crowd(s)...
they don't hear you every week like a house band, so after hearing other bands between your gigs, are they really gonna remember what your old setlist was?
And if they enjoyed it the last time (again, with other bands/setlists in between) is it really that big of a deal?
You may literally have gotten rid of a song or songs they liked to hear from you.
I think sometimes the band members are getting tired of the same songs, not necessarily the audience.
Great post! I know for a fact that many of our fans come out expecting to hear some of those tired old chestnuts, over and over! And when they hear it start up they go nuts! And, if we took them out they would be disappointed.
Adding songs is great, but does not necessarily need to happen so frequently.
You guys are gonna roll your eyes but yes, we play Freebird. Usually as the night-ender. The drummer came up with a killer "short" version of the 14min live version and it burns the house down. LG hates it but me and the drummer play it with glee.
We also play the dreaded M****** S**** if requested, and it always slays.
ENTERTAIN!!
I'm totally with y'all on the volume thing, and I consider my keeping the volume right as part of my secret weapon to get gigs over other bands.
But just as a thought to throw in here... and assuming all the bands in the area aren't playing the same songs...
As for constantly adding new songs, I think that MIGHT be an overrated effort.
We're adding new songs, but mostly to improve the setlist, replacing duds, adding songs that are more danceable and and up-to-date,
but consider that if you have a good setlist that works with the crowd(s)...
they don't hear you every week like a house band, so after hearing other bands between your gigs, are they really gonna remember what your old setlist was?
And if they enjoyed it the last time (again, with other bands/setlists in between) is it really that big of a deal?
You may literally have gotten rid of a song or songs they liked to hear from you.
I think sometimes the band members are getting tired of the same songs, not necessarily the audience.
The problem, imv, is same songs different bands just means overplayed clichés.
There are a few towns here whereby there are banned songs. It used to be the likes of Mustang Sally, now its Brightside.
Some places love it, some crowds hate it.
Its a great song done to death, ditto Sex on Fire.
If the band has the armoury then you dont need these songs.
But...beware of horses for courses.
Great post! I know for a fact that many of our fans come out expecting to hear some of those tired old chestnuts, over and over! And when they hear it start up they go nuts! And, if we took them out they would be disappointed.
Adding songs is great, but does not necessarily need to happen so frequently.
You guys are gonna roll your eyes but yes, we play Freebird. Usually as the night-ender. The drummer came up with a killer "short" version of the 14min live version and it burns the house down. LG hates it but me and the drummer play it with glee.
We also play the dreaded M****** S**** if requested, and it always slays.
ENTERTAIN!!
I would play Freebird, no problem. Last week, someone requested Sweet Home Alabama, which I detest on multiple levels. The crowd loved it, while I just thought about the sandwich I was gonna make when I got home.
