Another "Help Me Understand Amp/Cab Pairings, Ohms, etc" Thread

[Obese Chess]

Morning all.

I swear, someday I'm going to wrap my head around this concept, and hopefully today is going to be that day. So here's the deal.

I am looking at eventually retiring my current live rig, which is two ancient Peavey heads bi-amped into a similarly ancient Peavey 1820 cabinet. I love the tone but not the size and weight. You know the drill. I'd keep this forever if Peavey weren't Invalid Link Removed, which is going to get me close to the tone I want.

So.

The Super Festival reissue is 1200W RMS at a minimum of 4 Ohms.

Great, now I need a cabinet. Peavey is issuing a matching cabinet but I'm sorry I'm not inclined to pay $1,499 for a Peavey 6x10 even if it is 1200W. My favorite cabinets that I have used have been Bergantino 2x12s, particularly the older HDN212 but I've also been impressed by the newer NXT212.

The NXT212 has a power handling of 800W at 4 Ohms, my recollection is that is HDN212 has a 700W at 4 Ohms.

I wrote to Jim Bergantino asking how to make this work, and as always he was kind and gracious with his time, telling me that either cabinet will have no problem handling that head. I didn't want to bother him with the basic lunkhead questions (this was a matter of perceived courtesy on my end, I'm sure he'd have been happy to answer), and am instead submitting those basic lunkhead questions to the TB community.

So here's what I don't get: how? How is a 700-800W cabinet able to handle a 1200W head no problem? Is this just based on the (very likely) assumption that I won't be maxing out the volume on a 1200W RMS amp, or is there some wattage/resistance voodoo that I don't understand happening here?

Cheers!

 

[bholder]

Is this just based on the (very likely) assumption that I won't be maxing out the volume on a 1200W RMS amp, or is there some wattage/resistance voodoo that I don't understand happening here?

Ah-yup. This. Bingo! Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!

That is, it might be possible to damage the cab if maxing everything out on the amp (and the signal chain to it), but it's very unlikely you'd ever need to go there. You'd give out before the speaker would, most likely. That'd be VERY LOUD.

 

[agedhorse]

It depends, if you are not careful or have unreasonable expectations, you very well could damage those (and most) cabinets.

 

[FugaziBomb]

I've over powered a pair of Hartke 410s for years, but it was only by 50 watts. I'd be hesitant to power an 800 watt cab with a 1200 watt amp. Maybe I'm crazy, but that seems like a big difference

 

[Obese Chess]

It depends, if you are not careful or have unreasonable expectations, you very well could damage those (and most) cabinets.

I've over powered a pair of Hartke 410s for years, but it was only by 50 watts. I'd be hesitant to power an 800 watt cab with a 1200 watt amp. Maybe I'm crazy, but that seems like a big difference

These two things are in line with what I was thinking, but I also assume that Jim Bergantino has forgotten more about amplifier and cabinet design than I will ever know, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything other than what @bholder said above.

 

[bholder]

These two things are in line with what I was thinking, but I also assume that Jim Bergantino has forgotten more about amplifier and cabinet design than I will ever know, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything other than what @bholder said above.

Anything @agedhorse says bets anything I say for sure. Still, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that rig at max volume! hehe

 

[Obese Chess]

Anything @agedhorse says bets anything I say for sure. Still, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that rig at max volume! hehe

Yeah, I feel like everyone's saying about the same thing in the same way.

Now, let me ask this, and here's where the math starts to get fuzzy for me: the NXT 112 is 400W at 8 Ohms. Could I run two of those? Or should I realistically just be looking for a 1200W+ at 4 ohm cabinet if I want to be safe?

 

[agedhorse]

Yeah, I feel like everyone's saying about the same thing in the same way.

Now, let me ask this, and here's where the math starts to get fuzzy for me: the NXT 112 is 400W at 8 Ohms. Could I run two of those? Or should I realistically just be looking for a 1200W+ at 4 ohm cabinet if I want to be safe?

Yes, if you are careful and have good judgement with reasonable expectations.

 

[Obese Chess]

Yes, if you are careful and have good judgement with reasonable expectations.

I'm gonna be honest with you - I've never been described as any of these things in my entire life. I'm assuming the answer here is "any of these cabinets are likely going to be okay as long as you don't crank the volume, but if you want to be safe then find a 1200W+ 4 ohm cabinet"

 

[Passinwind]

I'm gonna be honest with you - I've never been described as any of these things in my entire life. I'm assuming the answer here is "any of these cabinets are likely going to be okay as long as you don't crank the volume, but if you want to be safe then find a 1200W+ 4 ohm cabinet"

Heh, I remember at TB GTG where someone in the cab building business was sure you had blowm my little 112, or I at least think it was you ?

My cab was fine BTW.

 

[basscooker]

Do we know if "1200" is RMS?

 

[Obese Chess]

Heh, I remember at TB GTG where someone in the cab building business was sure you had blowm my little 112, or I at least think it was you ?

My cab was fine BTW.

I don't recall this happening - on the one hand, it sounds like something I would have done, on the other hand I would have felt bad enough about it to remember, so I don't think it was me!

Do we know if "1200" is RMS?

Yes, the head is advertised as 1200W RMS.

 

[Passinwind]

I don't recall this happening - on the one hand, it sounds like something I would have done, on the other hand I would have felt bad enough about it to remember, so I don't think it

It was just south of Seattle at one of the huge brewery GTGs, I doubt you would have been able to even tell in that big concrete warehouse. I just remember metal-ish player with a Dingwall, through my uber-clean 112 with the tweeter full up. Plenty of other guys it might’ve been, and those GTGs are a long trip for me so I can easilly misremember. But I wouldn’t have been shy about intervening if there was any substantial risk to my gear!

 

[Jim Bergantino]

Is it safe to drive a car capable of going over 100MPH in a 25MPH zone? Let’s start there.

 

[agedhorse]

Is it safe to drive a car capable of going over 100MPH in a 25MPH zone? Let’s start there.

Yup, back to the good judgement part of the qualifications

 

[basscooker]

OP, you've mentioned you liked Mr. Bergantino's cabs.

I read so very much here about his work. As a quick aside, tangentially related to the thread, @Jim Bergantino has there been, or would the market bear your offering of an 8 ohm 2x12?
I could as well address the latter question to @agedhorse since IIRC the SW212 is only available in 4 ohm.

OP, Peavey themselves apparently suggest their 610, have you looked on the used market for one of Mr. Bergantino's NV610? Maybe the voicing differs from the 212 you like, but it hasn't been mentioned yet afaik

 

[Obese Chess]

It was just south of Seattle at one of the huge brewery GTGs, I doubt you would have been able to even tell in that big concrete warehouse. I just remember metal-ish player with a Dingwall, through my uber-clean 112 with the tweeter full up. Plenty of other guys it might’ve been, and those GTGs are a long trip for me so I can easilly misremember. But I wouldn’t have been shy about intervening if there was any substantial risk to my gear!

Metal guy with a Dingwall playing a 112 with the tweeter full up... man, that does sound like me...

Is it safe to drive a car capable of going over 100MPH in a 25MPH zone? Let’s start there.

Depends - are the "School Zone" lights flashing?

Just kidding. I think I get what y'all are saying, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything (I have cooked cabinets before by turning up too loud!)

Also @basscooker I haven't seen the NV610 but those appear to be quite inexpensive for the price and quality on the used market. Food for thought, for sure.

 

[D to the C]

The biggest thing that will blow up your speaker with that much power, is how much low end you are going to feed into it at high volume. If you’re going loud, dial back the low end, and use your ears to hear if you’re over driving them.

And what Jim Bergantino and Aged Horse said!

 

[Obese Chess]

The biggest thing that will blow up your speaker with that much power, is how much low end you are going to feed into it at high volume. If you’re going loud, dial back the low end, and use your ears to hear if you’re over driving them.

And what Jim Bergantino and Aged Horse said!

ie, "don't be an idiot and crank it up to 11?"

 

[agedhorse]

ie, "don't be an idiot and crank it up to 11?"

Don’t crank it up beyond what the speaker can SAFELY handle.