Another IEM question

[BurningSkies]

HA! Too True! We practice on Sunday or Monday, I'll grab a screen capture of the 4 monitor mixes to compare and show off the levels.

Another thing we tried last gig was a talkback mic. It's always been hard for our sound guy ( friend that owns the PA speakers and runs faders for us ) to communicate with us. We have an unused wireless mic. He mutes the mic through the FOH but we have it in our ears.. he can comment to us... give us song change ideas etc while we are playing without the audience hearing. I love it. As long as he doesn't get chatty, it's great and helped out a couple times last show.

Yeah, I think about having a board mic. But what I really think is going to happen is I'm dropping an AT2020 on a stand by the edge of the stage and then mix in a lil' audience noise enough to feel like we're having a show. It's amazing how loud the audience is though once you've removed your IEMs though!

 

[Scottkarch]

Yeah, I think about having a board mic. But what I really think is going to happen is I'm dropping an AT2020 on a stand by the edge of the stage and then mix in a lil' audience noise enough to feel like we're having a show. It's amazing how loud the audience is though once you've removed your IEMs though!

that's another idea I've been toying with.. some simple omnidirectional mic to do the same thing.. and the members can put it in their mix if they WANT. I think I'll probably have it off. One guitar player that really hates the feel/sound of in ears is really who it's for. I may put a small mic on his stand facing out.. .so he will hear in his ears much of what he'd hear anyway with them out. It's worth trying.

 

[BurningSkies]

that's another idea I've been toying with.. some simple omnidirectional mic to do the same thing.. and the members can put it in their mix if they WANT. I think I'll probably have it off. One guitar player that really hates the feel/sound of in ears is really who it's for. I may put a small mic on his stand facing out.. .so he will hear in his ears much of what he'd hear anyway with them out. It's worth trying.

I'd at least be able to hear people shouting for songs we're not going to play.

 

[s0c9]

that's another idea I've been toying with.. some simple omnidirectional mic to do the same thing.. and the members can put it in their mix if they WANT. I think I'll probably have it off. One guitar player that really hates the feel/sound of in ears is really who it's for. I may put a small mic on his stand facing out.. .so he will hear in his ears much of what he'd hear anyway with them out. It's worth trying.

I have found that the isolation one gets with IEM's - especially customs - is VERY off putting for many guitar players..
Ambient mics work for some.

 

[Scottkarch]

I wonder why guitar players would have more issues.

 

[s0c9]

I wonder why guitar players would have more issues.

From what I can gather (having been one for 15 yrs), it's all about being used to the "amp in the room" sound.
When they hear what they perceive as "recorded" guitar -- which is what it sounds like in IEM's because it's DI'd or mic'd -- they believe it to be sound sterile, no air, no depth, etc.
This can of course be compensated for by judicious use of IEM mix settings, but many (that I have played with) never give it a chance.
They slap in IEM's at a gig, then rip them out because "it don't sound right!"...

That's my experience. I've never had the problem because I've practiced with phones for many years, and went to modelers years ago (note my sig about beta tester). Going IEM was a simple, next-step progression for me..

 

[Scottkarch]

Makes sense. Our other guitar player embraced it immediately and has been working on his helix tones through the whole chain. Pedal-mixer-IEM. What we are finding is the better his IEM tone sounds in his IEMs , the closer it is in the FOH as well.

He still has his old pod 500. He and I will work on to try and get tones preset for the second guitar player that sound great in our IEMs. Maybe that will help.

From what I can gather (having been one for 15 yrs), it's all about being used to the "amp in the room" sound.
When they hear what they perceive as "recorded" guitar -- which is what it sounds like in IEM's because it's DI's or mic'd -- they believe it to be sound sterile, no air, no depth, etc.
This can of course be compensated for by judicious use of IEM mix settings, but many (that I have played with) never give it a chance.
They slap in IEM's at a gig, then rip them out because "it don't sound right!"...

 

[BurningSkies]

I wonder why guitar players would have more issues.

We have one of those. He's pulling one of his IEM and his excuse is 'THAT is NOT the tone of MY guitar & amp'...what he doesn't realize...is that it very much IS his tone. ; ) I tried to explain to him that the mic isn't lying... that his ears are. That since his amp is beaming due to his 12" speakers and they're stage level vs. near his ears... he doesn't get it.

And due to that, he's still pretty loud on stage when the rest of the band isn't.

 

[Scottkarch]

We have one of those. He's pulling one of his IEM and his excuse is 'THAT is NOT the tone of MY guitar & amp'...what he doesn't realize...is that it very much IS his tone. ; ) I tried to explain to him that the mic isn't lying... that his ears are. That since his amp is beaming due to his 12" speakers and they're stage level vs. near his ears... he doesn't get it.

And due to that, he's still pretty loud on stage when the rest of the band isn't.

Maybe get a stand that will aim his speaker right at his head? Sounds very understandable and normal. There is a differentce between "that's not my tone" and "that's not what I hear" It seems like it would be the same, but it's not.

Some people don't want to futz with equipment to get tone.. it's not fun, or not worth it, or they don't understand what's going on so they don't know what to do. That all makes sense. It may be worthy of another thread. This is not a guitar player only issue.. the bass players that experience it left this thread ages ago. So I think it applies to everyone. How do you move from amps and wedge monitors to ampless and IEM? Even I am not satisfied with the tone from my M80. It's OK, but I want better. It seems modelers especially with amp and cabinet simulators may be crucial.