Another IEMs question

[roller]

I recently switched to custom molds after a couple years of using Shure SE-215s

1) Resale - I really doubt anyone would buy used custom molds, I have no idea why anyone would buy used universals either.

2) Flexibility - no need for flexibility when the customs are just right. That's the whole point of getting custom. If for some reason they don't come out right, you should be able to get them redone

3) Cleanliness- My customs are hard plastic, I have noticed no sign of dirtiness in the ~6 months I've been using them.

4) Better seal - To get as good of a seal from universals as customs, they would have to be so big and have so much extra foam that they would be painful to wear. Again, that's the whole point of going custom.

Totally agreed on Meyatch's 1 thru 4.

 

[Alan Ace Cooper]

I have a set of the Shure 215 Blue In Ears from Shure of Japan. Unlike their US counterpart, the Import Blue versions are tuned to have a better Bass Response. I like them very much.

However, when I got my molded/custom fit, JH Audio J-11 series molds (insert huge pipe organ with angels singing here), the quality level, sound and fit are far more valuable. Having the custom molds fitted for your ears prevents all of the slipping and adjusting you have to deal with using Universal ear monitors. I can stand right next to the drummer and not have his (or her) volume be an issue. When I remove them, I feel like the scene from Shrek, when he pulls the blob of wax from his ear to make a candle! Drawback / Cons - There are times when I wish I could hear the audience singing but my J-11s don't allow for much outside noise. For some extra bread, you can get the JH-Audio Ambient FR model, that allows you to hear crowd noise and other surrounding sounds. The last time I looked they were almost $500 more than the J-11s.

I can't imagine not having my custom In Ear molds. As for my Shure plugs… I use them for flying and other long distance travel situations

 

[FuturePrimitive]

I'm currently using 64 Audio Qis. I have used various Shure, Carvin, and Sennheiser universal IEMs as well as over the ear headphones and cheapo earbuds.

1) Resale - I can see resale being a possibility if I wind up not needing or liking them with universal fit.

IMO, if price is not a factor neither is resale. That said, you can still sell used customs, the manufacturer can make new molds for the new owner, so the difference in resale between customs and universals may not be that big anyway.

2) Flexibility - I can try different materials of tips until I find exactly what I like.

Maybe. Or you can try different materials and sizes of tips and still not find anything that works well. That was my experience.

3) Cleanliness- After a few shows, just chunk those flexible tips and put on new ones.

My customs have never needed more than a wipe with my shirt and a quick swipe with the "cleaning tool" for the sound holes, literally takes 10 seconds. Cleanliness is light years better and easier with customs.

4) Better seal - If the ear bud tip is expanding to fit your ear canal every time, it must be sealing up nice and isolating well.

The only thing I've used that gets a better seal than my customs is my shooting muffs. And they're not that much quieter and significantly less comfortable.

I guess what I am trying to say is I need to be talked into molded buds before buying them.

You left out a big one. Comfort. I've never worn any IEM/earbud that didn't cause me significant discomfort after a while, some in as little as 20 minutes, others maybe an hour or two. All kinds of different tip size and material, didn't matter, nothing worked. My Qis can stay in for hours (8 is my longest run so far) with no discomfort, pain, or fatigue. Honestly, given my experience with sticking things in my ears if someone had told me that I would be skeptical but they really have lived up to the comfort hype. Even if they didn't sound astoundingly better than cheapo IEMs the comfort factor alone would be worth it to protect my ears through a 4 hour show.

 

[Meyatch]

By the way, I highly doubt the poll here is very accurate, and 50% of people that have used both universal and customs think universal is better. I did lots of research before biting the bullet and getting customs, and it was overwhelmingly positive. I would guess you are getting a lot of "I've never used customs but universals are working good enough" responses.

 

[MDBass]

So, I have a very specific question.

For those of you who use (what I would call) "high end" IEM buds, and have used both molded and universal.....

Was there a tremendous difference? Was one much better than the other?

I am specifically comparing the 64 Audio A8 vs U8. I can actually see advantages to both kinds....but primarily universal fit. (Price is not a factor for this discussion.)

1) Resale - I can see resale being a possibility if I wind up not needing or liking them with universal fit.

2) Flexibility - I can try different materials of tips until I find exactly what I like.

3) Cleanliness- After a few shows, just chunk those flexible tips and put on new ones.

4) Better seal - If the ear bud tip is expanding to fit your ear canal every time, it must be sealing up nice and isolating well.


I guess what I am trying to say is I need to be talked into molded buds before buying them.

Again, price is not a factor.

The custom molds have a significantly better seal and thus better isolation, as well as better bass response, as a result.

If you're spending $500+ for IEMS I wouldn't consider anything other than custom molds; it's what all touring pros use for a reason.

 

[MDBass]

By the way, I highly doubt the poll here is very accurate, and 50% of people that have used both universal and customs think universal is better. I did lots of research before biting the bullet and getting customs, and it was overwhelmingly positive. I would guess you are getting a lot of "I've never used customs but universals are working good enough" responses.

Yeah, the poll results are nonsense.

I highly soubt anyone who has ever used custom molds ever went back to universal tips.

 

[s0c9]

Yeah, the poll results are nonsense.

I highly soubt anyone who has ever used custom molds ever went back to universal tips.

I agree... and I've used both.. quite a bit over the last 7 yrs...

 

[delta7fred]

I have a question for you guys who have customs.

How do they compare for isolation to say Etymotic ER20 (18db average attenuation) earplugs?

I'm asking because my universals have about the same attenuation as ER20s (as far as I can tell by my non too scientific testing method) and I was wondering what attenuation customs achieve.

 

[Meyatch]

according to the manufacturer, my headphones are -26db

 

[delta7fred]

Yeah, the poll results are nonsense.

I highly soubt anyone who has ever used custom molds ever went back to universal tips.

I didn't vote because the poll is pretty pointless, what works for me has no bearing on what works for the next guy.

I suspect the only reason to go back to universals would be if you lost your customs and were waiting to get some more made (or were flat broke).

according to the manufacturer, my headphones are -26db

Thanks, I'm starting to get interested now.

 

[RoeyHaviv]

I use 215, they fit me perfectly, the encloser on the customs always seemed too big and bulky, I know the sound isn't the most detailed on my cheap single driver shures but I'm not recording that signal, this is for reference, I hear everything, they seal almost too well, small and most importantly easily replaceable, like an sm58 mic, not the best but often makes the most sense for the job.

 

[Runnerman]

I use Alien Ears molded for the last year and a half. Far superior to the buds I was using for isolation and sound quality. I would never go back. Rather than answering your questions, I'll just give a few points of reference based on my experience so far.

1) The tips I had with the buds did include various sizes and densities of foam. No matter how hard I tried I could never get a consistently great fit. Sweating or even smiling on stage would change the fit which is just a pure pain in the a$$ in the middle of a song. I used a few different models over 2-3 years but never found one that did the trick.

2) If you are in the habit of pulling one bud partially out to hear the ambient mix then this gets tough with a mold. The way we have overcome this is just to put up an ambient mike pointed to the audience and then you mix as much as you want in your monitor. 1964 Ears has a model with a vent which lets in some ambient....another option.

3) Wax. I learned the hard way to clean religiously after every insertion into the ear. I ended up plugging the sound port on one side with wax. I returned the monitors thinking a driver was shot. Alien Ears cleaned, tested and returned them for $10. But I was without the monitors for about 4 weeks.

My vote is molded all the way.

 

[FuturePrimitive]

I have a question for you guys who have customs.

How do they compare for isolation to say Etymotic ER20 (18db average attenuation) earplugs?

I'm asking because my universals have about the same attenuation as ER20s (as far as I can tell by my non too scientific testing method) and I was wondering what attenuation customs achieve.

I used to have ER20s and now have a set of Downbeats "High Fidelity" Musician plugs. I will say the isolation between earplugs and custom IEMs is very different. With the plugs everything sound a bit muffled, my voice sounds weird, etc. With the customs everything is just quieter. And my voice doesn't do the weird thing it does with earplugs. I think this has to do with how each goes about making the seal. Plugs and universals rely on the rubber/foam applying pressure to your skin/ear canal to form the seal, whereas customs just fill your canal precisely without having to push/press into your skin.

 

[Runnerman]

Oh...and I forgot about comfort...the molded are more comfortable hands down if properly fitted.

 

[delta7fred]

I use Alien Ears molded for the last year and a half. Far superior to the buds I was using for isolation and sound quality. I would never go back. Rather than answering your questions, I'll just give a few points of reference based on my experience so far.

1) The tips I had with the buds did include various sizes and densities of foam. No matter how hard I tried I could never get a consistently great fit. Sweating or even smiling on stage would change the fit which is just a pure pain in the a$$ in the middle of a song. I used a few different models over 2-3 years but never found one that did the trick.

2) If you are in the habit of pulling one bud partially out to hear the ambient mix then this gets tough with a mold. The way we have overcome this is just to put up an ambient mike pointed to the audience and then you mix as much as you want in your monitor. 1964 Ears has a model with a vent which lets in some ambient....another option.

3) Wax. I learned the hard way to clean religiously after every insertion into the ear. I ended up plugging the sound port on one side with wax. I returned the monitors thinking a driver was shot. Alien Ears cleaned, tested and returned them for $10. But I was without the monitors for about 4 weeks.

My vote is molded all the way.

In response.

1. I get pretty good seal with my universals, If I don't get them in far enough I will occasionally get a volume increase if the seal breaks when I am singing. Had this happen about 3 times in the last 60 gigs.

2. I've been using plugs since getting tinnitus 6 years ago and have long since stopped bothering about the ambient mix. It sounded ok at sound check and that is good enough for me, our volume stays pretty consistent.

3. I am pretty meticulous about cleaning mine, usually done the following morning when I do any gear repairs and maintenance needed (and make a large pot of coffee).

Thanks for your responses guys, I am seriously thinking about custom molded now!

(Apologies to two fingers for gate crashing his thread.)

 

[bhoff5150]

Thanks.
What kind of rubber tips? Got a link?

They came with the Shure 425 earbuds. They are the light gray colored ones in the pic here

SE425 Sound Isolating™ Earphones | Shure Americas

To me they are more comfortable than the black compressible foam or comply foam type.

 

[roller]

Oh...and I forgot about comfort...the molded are more comfortable hands down if properly fitted.

The hard plastic material used in most custom IEMs is quite a bit different than the rubbers and soft plastics used in many universal sets. Upon picking mine up, I wondered about their comfort... but like Runnerman wrote, as long as you've got a good fit, you'll have no issues with poor comfort.

Regarding wax, Future Sonics includes a simple tool for removing it from their units when there is build-up, which never amounts to the point that it causes issues.

Some claim their custom IEMs prevent them from hearing ambient sound in the room. Because they use actual speakers and not armatures, Future Sonics customs are ported. But not to worry -- the ports are small and the ambient sound doesn't deter from the listening experience.

 

[two fingers]

In response.

1. I get pretty good seal with my universals, If I don't get them in far enough I will occasionally get a volume increase if the seal breaks when I am singing. Had this happen about 3 times in the last 60 gigs.

2. I've been using plugs since getting tinnitus 6 years ago and have long since stopped bothering about the ambient mix. It sounded ok at sound check and that is good enough for me, our volume stays pretty consistent.

3. I am pretty meticulous about cleaning mine, usually done the following morning when I do any gear repairs and maintenance needed (and make a large pot of coffee).

Thanks for your responses guys, I am seriously thinking about custom molded now!

(Apologies to two fingers for gate crashing his thread.)

No apologies needed. This is just the kind of conversation I was hoping to kick off. Open and honest real life experiences. Keep 'em coming.

 

[WalterBush]

I used universal fit plugs from FutureSonics and Ultimate Ears for a number of years. No tip, not the foamy ones Futuresonics used for a while or the comply replacement tips worked for my freakishly small ear canals. About five years ago I pulled the trigger on molded AE3 dual-lows from Alien Ears.

The short version is that for me there was no comparison based on comfort alone, but the isolation and sound quality were a step up. I use my custom molds as earplugs when shooting and they're just as good as the foamy plugs found on construction sites everywhere. With the dual lows there's a slight exaggeration of the bass that keeps them from being studio quality monitors, but they're easily the best sounding earbuds I've ever used for casual listening.

I can't imagine anyone going back to universals; for me they were always falling out, the tips got gooked up with sweat and wax, and they became painful about halfway through a four hour gig. The sound changed while singing as they slipped out so I had to keep forcing them back in my ear. They were better by far than going deaf or going to sleep with my ears ringing after a gig, but the custom molds just stay in (DON'T step on the cable while crouching to futz with a pedalboard, btw, trust me on this!) and are easy to clean. I'm sure as hell not going back. Occasionally they need service or a new cable and I go back to my UE SuperFi's. The universals make a nice backup, but I can't recommend them if custom fits are within your means.

As usual, just my experience.

 

[bobdabilder]

I use shure 215s with the large replacement foam tips from musiciansfriend and am quite pleased. I replace the foam tips about every 3 months.
I lied. Its sweetwater
Shure EABKF1-10L Black Foam, Large, 5 pair