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Any computer guru's out there... WIN11 studio upgrade

tothemax

tothemax

Supporting Member
Nov 1, 2013
1,456
1,691
Annapolis Area
#1
My old Studio PC's are DELL Optiplex, a 7020 and a 7010, both are WIN10 and officially "not" WIN11 compatible. In doing some research apparently while they are not on WIN11 compatibility list they can be upgraded. I had been shopping around for refurbs that would upgrade my system to WIN11 and I-7 or above (6 or 8 cores) with 64GB RAM, they are in the $350 - $600 range. My studio PC's are on the internet so staying with WIN10 is a security risk. If I were to upgrade one to WIN11 there is the chance that updates and patches may not be compatible. My main PC has an I7-4790 quad core with 32GB and is upgradeable to 64GB.
My gut feeling is that it doesn't make sense to put money into old tech, and there would be the cost of the OS and memory upgrade, to upgrade the CPU is just not worth it as it would require a power supply upgrade. I do notice if I have a number of plugins, that the current system drags a bit. So it is limited as is.

I'm not an Apple person (not since the IIc days anyway...) so I want to stay with a WIN system. I'm thinking the best path forward is to buy a decent refurb WIN11 PC with the specs for my DAW (3Ghz +, 8 cores, 64GB, 500GB+ SSD) and repurpose the existing PC for storage (WIN10) basically an OS without any apps except security software.

Just wondering if any other PC folks are dealing with a similar situation...
 
#2
tothemax said:
My old Studio PC's are DELL Optiplex, a 7020 and a 7010, both are WIN10 and officially "not" WIN11 compatible. In doing some research apparently while they are not on WIN11 compatibility list they can be upgraded. I had been shopping around for refurbs that would upgrade my system to WIN11 and I-7 or above (6 or 8 cores) with 64GB RAM, they are in the $350 - $600 range. My studio PC's are on the internet so staying with WIN10 is a security risk. If I were to upgrade one to WIN11 there is the chance that updates and patches may not be compatible. My main PC has an I7-4790 quad core with 32GB and is upgradeable to 64GB.
My gut feeling is that it doesn't make sense to put money into old tech, and there would be the cost of the OS and memory upgrade, to upgrade the CPU is just not worth it as it would require a power supply upgrade. I do notice if I have a number of plugins, that the current system drags a bit. So it is limited as is.

I'm not an Apple person (not since the IIc days anyway...) so I want to stay with a WIN system. I'm thinking the best path forward is to buy a decent refurb WIN11 PC with the specs for my DAW (3Ghz +, 8 cores, 64GB, 500GB+ SSD) and repurpose the existing PC for storage (WIN10) basically an OS without any apps except security software.

Just wondering if any other PC folks are dealing with a similar situation...
Click to expand...
You're on the right path grabbing a refurb PC in this particular scenario. The 4th gen Intel i7 in your current PC is circa 10 years old architecture at this point. Intel has moved past 14th gen as of about a year or so ago. You're also understanding it's support and security instead of "newest and fastest" when it comes to newer hardware, which also tells me your head is in the right place.

This is thinking far down the pipe, but you may want to opt for an AMD 7xxx or 9xxx series CPU instead of Intel...Intel is not in very good shape right now and security issues could become a concern for their hardware should they go under. AMD has basically lapped Intel in the desktop CPU space as of their 9xxx series releases anyways. Prices are very competitive (at this time).

If you have a computer savvy buddy (or a Micro Center near you) consider doing custom build. OEM builders tend to cut corners, so you could get stuck with iffy no-name RAM, garbage case fans, or a bum PSU going with Dell, HP, etc. Buy once, cry once. You'll need to get some dialogue going with the friend to plan out cooling, case and motherboard form factor, etc. but anybody who knows how to build a PC will know how to help you with that. The bar to clear with cooling compared to an OEM case can basically be stepped on.

The goal being something to run Win 11 is doable with the refurb, but buying a PC that will last you another 10 years may require more finesse now that we're post COVID (and other more recent factors arising) and that may show more in the price range you're considering. Lot of cautionary information, but working in the industry will make you jaded and cynical :roflmao:
 
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#3
PtB...
Thanks, I'm a retired IT guy so I do my best to keep my hands out of the build anymore... and have enough projects between home and band. But you make a good point, going for a custom build from an OEM like DELL is going to be pricey (and somewhat proprietary). The budget priced refurbs are limited in their options, realistically they tend to be about 5 year fix. That said, I've had pretty good luck with refurbs through Amazon for a while now... and while I like the SFF sizing it is restrictive across the vendors.

I will do some shopping around to see how building out a system compares...

Cheers,

FYI: Was recently in Turkey, what a great place... absolutely loved Istanbul, and Ephesus is off the charts... :thumbsup:
 
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#4
I recently went through an attempt to install Windows 11 on a non-compatible machine. It was a giant nightmare. One of the big sticklers is your PC motherboard MUST have a "TPM" - Trusted Program Module, and the newer 2.0 version of TPM. It's a special chip on your motherboard. My machine had the older ver 1.2 TPM, wouldin't install Windows 11 but won't tell you that until AFTER you've entered the programs security code.

Your hardware must also support a function called UEFI/Secure Boot. This is something in the BIOS to prevent somebody from plugging in a pen drive and booting your machine off that.

These are things MS added to make corporate computers more "locked down" and insulated from curious or malicious users. Microsoft is being vague about these details; I had to dig around to find this information. Expect that refurb computers that don't meet these specs will be marked way down before retailers are stuck with un-upgradable door stops.

Again, to install Windows 11, you need a motherboard with:
UEFI BIOS/Secure Boot
TPM 2.0 or better
 
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#5
tothemax said:
My old Studio PC's are DELL Optiplex, a 7020 and a 7010, both are WIN10 and officially "not" WIN11 compatible. In doing some research apparently while they are not on WIN11 compatibility list they can be upgraded. I had been shopping around for refurbs that would upgrade my system to WIN11 and I-7 or above (6 or 8 cores) with 64GB RAM, they are in the $350 - $600 range. My studio PC's are on the internet so staying with WIN10 is a security risk. If I were to upgrade one to WIN11 there is the chance that updates and patches may not be compatible. My main PC has an I7-4790 quad core with 32GB and is upgradeable to 64GB.
My gut feeling is that it doesn't make sense to put money into old tech, and there would be the cost of the OS and memory upgrade, to upgrade the CPU is just not worth it as it would require a power supply upgrade. I do notice if I have a number of plugins, that the current system drags a bit. So it is limited as is.

I'm not an Apple person (not since the IIc days anyway...) so I want to stay with a WIN system. I'm thinking the best path forward is to buy a decent refurb WIN11 PC with the specs for my DAW (3Ghz +, 8 cores, 64GB, 500GB+ SSD) and repurpose the existing PC for storage (WIN10) basically an OS without any apps except security software.

Just wondering if any other PC folks are dealing with a similar situation...
Click to expand...

I would consider joining "0patch", they will provide security updates for Win10 for a few years at around 25 euros a year I think.
 
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#7
tothemax said:
PtB...
Thanks, I'm a retired IT guy so I do my best to keep my hands out of the build anymore... and have enough projects between home and band. But you make a good point, going for a custom build from an OEM like DELL is going to be pricey (and somewhat proprietary). The budget priced refurbs are limited in their options, realistically they tend to be about 5 year fix. That said, I've had pretty good luck with refurbs through Amazon for a while now... and while I like the SFF sizing it is restrictive across the vendors.

I will do some shopping around to see how building out a system compares...

Cheers,

FYI: Was recently in Turkey, what a great place... absolutely loved Istanbul, and Ephesus is off the charts... :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Nice! I'm at 15 years and counting, hopefully I'll be in the same boat and retire in the industry someday...unless some uppity AI chatbot is deemed suitable to take my systems administration job :rollno:

Yeah, so then speaking geek instead of general terms, I was referring to an off the shelf build, not a custom through the OEM like Dell or HP. Any of them are going to price gouge and you'll usually end up getting subpar parts like listed to begin with. Anything name brand is gonna be way more expensive than just buying the parts off the shelf and assembling. The reason I bring up Micro Center is if you're buying your complete system's worth of parts there, they'll assemble it for you (typically same-day if it's not Saturday or Sunday).

Things have come a LONG way though, quite a bit is plug and play in terms of driver support and you wouldn't need anything crazy to get rolling. You may even be able to get by with one of those pack-in downdraft coolers (I think AMD's is the "Wraith Stealth") or aftermarket ones, where a great air cooler is less than $30. M.2 SSDs mean you won't even have to look for a spot in the case to put a storage drive, typical motherboards come with 2 or 3 slots for them, the prices are on-par with a typical 2.5" SSD and all you have to do is screw them in to the motherboard directly.

Other than an intake and exhaust fan (along with the PSU of course), you wouldn't even need to connect any SATA drives or parts at all. The ####X model CPUs from AMD don't have onboard graphics, but there's plenty of super cheap dedicated cards that will run off PCI-E slot power alone. SFF and laptops are probably the strongest hold that OEMs still have on the market. I'll admit I love the USFF HP desktops, I run Linux Mint on them and use them as daily drivers or Media PCs for my living room TV (streaming and such). I'm in a self-inflicted consolidation project though (trying to get as much off of Windows 11 as possible). A refurb from an OEM will assuredly get you by, question is for how long.


Alright, proselytizing from me will now conclude :roflmao:
 
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#9
Luckily I replaced my personal laptop a year or so ago and made the jump to WIN11, so I'm good there. It's both of the PC's in my studio that are WIN10. I am fortunate to live within and hour of two Microcenter stores, actually 3 if I include VA which is about an hour away. I've dealt with them in the past both for work and family, and have had good results. I use my studio quite a bit, so it may be worth taking the time to custom build a system, not to mention avoiding most of the bloat that comes pre-installed on OEM PC's. When I did some research on TPM 2.0, apparently it's dependent on a chip in the motherboard, these older Optiplex PC's may not have it (still I can check the Bios).

Thanks for the Opatch recommendation, that might be fine for non-Inet WIN10 fileservers, basically an OS and AV software. SDD drives are so large and inexpensive that you really don't need a FS for non-Enterprise use.

Appreciate the excellent feedback...

I remember working at a cutting edge site with a MegaDrive RAID system (500GB), basically a wall of fifty 10GB drives in the 90's, times have changed... :thumbsup:
 
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#10
Following up,

I think I've put together an affordable and efficient system, just have a couple of questions. This upgrade comes in at about $900, a little more than I was planning, but after doing some research it's does seem the best way to go. Anything comparable out of the box is going to run $1500 or more.

[Microcenter Bundle]
- CPU Ryzen 7 7700X Raphael AM5 4.5GHz 8-Core (with cooling)
- B650 Gaming X AX V2 AMD AM5 ATX Motherboard
- 32GB RAM
1 TB SSD internal drive
650 watt power supply
Case and case cooling
DVD/CD Burner

Questions:
1) Microcenter GPU options are all $160+. For a DAW, I don't think that graphics performance is all that critical. I found this Radeon HD 6570 Graphics Card, Dual HDMI, 1G GDDR3 64-bit, Video Cards PC, Low Profile, Computer GPU, PCI Express x 16, 60W Low Power, Plug & Play, DirectX 11 on Amazon for $65. Is there any reason that I would need more than that? ( I'm not a gamer, and the studio PC is pretty much dedicated for music production and related use)

2) 32GB RAM is included in the bundle, there are 4 slots in the PC Board, so I can add another 32 GB later. I run Cakewalk for my DAW and will probably upgrade to the new Sonar. With my current WIN10 system, with 32 GB RAM I find that the system slows down with certain plugins. I'm hoping the faster multi core CPU and RAM. Any concerns with this build?

3) I'm going to have to buy an WIN11 Home OS, all of my PC's have OEM software and can't be transferred. Don't think there are any other options unless I move off Windows. Most of my DAW software and drivers are WIN compatible, and will eventually need the patches. Thoughts?

4) Did a bit of research on PC and parts prices, the WIN10 EOL does not seem to be the critical point (although that may change once it's here). The focus seems to be on chips and parts that will be affected once the tariff's go into effect, currently delayed until mid November 2025. So thinking about pulling the trigger now while everything is available at the $800 + OS. Thoughts?

5) I'm going with a 1 TB internal drive and will probably add a second, 2 TB is not that more... but it seems like a more storage than necessary and I'd prefer a faster system. Even with SSD I'm sure that size effects performance. Thoughts?

6) I'm not sure if all the necessary cables are included in the bundle, but I'll need to pick everything up onsite and should be able to ask support while I'm there. I've built out and upgraded PC's over the years, so this is not a new skill. But, that said... Is there anything that might need particular attention with this AMD build?

Thanks in advance, always appreciate the feedback here...

Cheers
 
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#11
That last post might have been over the top...

After digging in a bit over the last week I think I found the answers, and yes, the MicroCenter build is definitely the best bang for the buck... After Iooking over the available bundle options the best option seems to be building a system around an AMD Ryzen 7 7700x 4.5 Ghz 8 core CPU. Amazon has complete gaming PC built on the Ryzen 7 5700G, but that is the older architecture and nowhere near the performance of the 7700x. The pros are that it would come assembled and ready to run verses building from scratch (a con is that it come with 16 GB RAM, so that brings it within a few $100 of the MicroCenter option).

Planning to pick it up tomorrow and will keep post on the progress.

Cheers
 
#12
@tothemax , I'm very interested in how your new build has been running: I put together a DAW during Valentine's Weekend 2008 that has served me well, but after doing a case cleaning recently, I've discovered a couple of Capacitors on the Motherboard that are *just* beginning to bulge. It can barely be seen, but easily felt when running a fingertip across the top.

Once I finished the build, I went on with making Music and never kept up the progression of the technology...so now, I'm in the midst of a crash course here: I'd be willing to pay the +/- $200 or so to have a local tech replace those Capacitors and keep my system going (my Audio Interface uses the old-style PCI Cards that new Motherboards don't support), but there's always the possibility that the surgery will brick the Board.

So I guess I'd better get with the times, even though I don't really have the finances for a whole new build right now and would have to get things piecemeal, looking on NewEgg for Combo and/or Clearance deals: I'd be looking at areas where I can cut back on costs, such as a lower-wattage CPU with integrated Graphics.

Your second-to-last post isn't over-the-top, it's just as educational to me as the rest of this thread.

Did you choose a CPU that has onboard Graphics, or one that doesn't and you got a GPU to go with it?
Which Audio Interface are you using?
 
#13
@tothemax , Also: What influenced your choice of Motherboard for your build?

My 2008 Build uses a Gigabyte GA-MA69G-S3H that was chosen back when Firewire Interfaces were common, because it has the specific Texas Instruments chipset that would allow for optimal I/O transfer rate with those units. I never did get a Firewire Interface.

So...aside from what @Crater mentioned above regarding UEFI BIOS/Secure Boot & TPM 2.0 to ensure that Windows 11 can be installed, what else is everyone taking into consideration when choosing Motherboards for DAW builds these days?
 
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#14
jay440 said:
@tothemax , Also: What influenced your choice of Motherboard for your build?

My 2008 Build uses a Gigabyte GA-MA69G-S3H that was chosen back when Firewire Interfaces were common, because it has the specific Texas Instruments chipset that would allow for optimal I/O transfer rate with those units. I never did get a Firewire Interface.

So...aside from what @Crater mentioned above regarding UEFI BIOS/Secure Boot & TPM 2.0 to ensure that Windows 11 can be installed, what else is everyone taking into consideration when choosing Motherboards for DAW builds these days?
Click to expand...
J40,
The main reason is that occasionally I run DaVinci Resolve for video editing and those gaming motherboard features and video card work well together. The system has a 1 TB USB drive connected for backup and project storage, while active projects process on the primary drive. I still haven't upgraded the RAM to 64GB yet, but the system seems to work fine so far. To be honest, the band has been pretty busy the last few months so most of my home studio time is practice or learning new songs.

Hope that helps... cheers :thumbsup:
 

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