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Any demand for a good high output solid state head ?
- Thread starter 2x4strgkramers
- Start date
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Debatably their woofer/tweeter biamp foray has been a miserable failure, causing more user problems than it solved as well as fixing the crossover point too high. And I never found the earlier GK biamp stuff to really have enough power to generally get full benefit of biamping on the low side of the selectable crossover frequency.
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
- 4,741
- Disclosures
- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
Have you ever tried the Meyer Sound cabs.. Possibly the finest in the bizz for sound reinforcement. Or the Bag End ELF system.
They are both State of the Art....
They are both State of the Art....
2x4- i like your direction. i do not think the biamp thing is a big deal cuz it doesnt work too well. i have experimented alot, i find even with 4x18" and 2-4x10 cabs, crossed at 250 hz 18 db, the darn tens still ruin the extreme low end. when i say low end, i mean what you feel, not what you hear. most bassists do not really know what low end really is, they have never heard a pipe organ in a church ect. most dudes think tons of 80 hz is low end. and also in every direction there are phase differences cuz of the spacing of the drivers. in other words, the reflection off the ceiling consists of the tweeters first, woofers second in time. the floor reflection will be woofer first, tweeter second. there is somthing special about the rightness of a full range driver. as the others have said, there is so much gear already covering the spectrum, but will other bassists actually notice more fidelity and consider it worthwhile? or will it go right over their heads. or does the crappy sounding room/pa make all obsolete? tough questions. how could we say a bass amp is 'hi-fi' anyways? there is really no original sound to compare to to judge how accurate it is anyways. but you would notice a difference between an swr head and a mcintosh mc275 with gold loins and mullards, if the speakers could convey it. i think speakers are way behind the amps in technology as far as bass rigs go. if u could make a cab the size of a 4x10 that sounded better and was more efficient than an svt, you would sell tons even if they are expensive. to me guitar amps are producers, and bass amps are reproducers. in a guitar amp i would want errors to add warmth, shine, texture to the original sound. a bass amp i want to hear exactly whats coming out of the bass. to me, in the studio, the direct sound always sounds the best of all the feeds. thats just my 2 cents. 
johnny a. staind
johnny a. staindA while back, on ebay, I ran across this guy selling the amplifier boards from the (bob carver) Sunfire true subwoofer. They're roughly the size of a chocolate bar, have no big transformer or capacitor, and simply turn the electricity in your outlet in to audio power. Mount 4-5 of those in a fan cooled, single rack space chassis. 1 space, 4-5 channel amplifier running 10,000-12,000 watts of power. Tons of blown speakers. Problem would be finding outlets to plug into, as they'll each draw 20amps.
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
- 4,741
- Disclosures
- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
I agree the speaker are lagging in technology but maybe sometimes that is not a bad thing. Usually i find the amps have more trouble controlling the speakers then the speaker have have trouble.
Also I agree there is that sonic rumble quality i love.
Also I agree there is that sonic rumble quality i love.
2x4- i like your direction. i do not think the biamp thing is a big deal cuz it doesnt work too well. i have experimented alot, i find even with 4x18" and 2-4x10 cabs, crossed at 250 hz 18 db, the darn tens still ruin the extreme low end. when i say low end, i mean what you feel, not what you hear. most bassists do not really know what low end really is, they have never heard a pipe organ in a church ect. most dudes think tons of 80 hz is low end. and also in every direction there are phase differences cuz of the spacing of the drivers. in other words, the reflection off the ceiling consists of the tweeters first, woofers second in time. the floor reflection will be woofer first, tweeter second. there is somthing special about the rightness of a full range driver. as the others have said, there is so much gear already covering the spectrum, but will other bassists actually notice more fidelity and consider it worthwhile? or will it go right over their heads. or does the crappy sounding room/pa make all obsolete? tough questions. how could we say a bass amp is 'hi-fi' anyways? there is really no original sound to compare to to judge how accurate it is anyways. but you would notice a difference between an swr head and a mcintosh mc275 with gold loins and mullards, if the speakers could convey it. i think speakers are way behind the amps in technology as far as bass rigs go. if u could make a cab the size of a 4x10 that sounded better and was more efficient than an svt, you would sell tons even if they are expensive. to me guitar amps are producers, and bass amps are reproducers. in a guitar amp i would want errors to add warmth, shine, texture to the original sound. a bass amp i want to hear exactly whats coming out of the bass. to me, in the studio, the direct sound always sounds the best of all the feeds. thats just my 2 cents.
bongomania
Commercial User
Terribly antiquated and uninformed thinking. Please look at the published specs for some modern cones. Then look into the science of cab tuning.
Andy's designs are some of the most lab-tested and most honestly-reported cab designs in the industry. You "assume" no-one has tested them just because you "assume" bassists are idiots. This is the same assumption you made in the other thread, claiming that the chief reason amp-modeling technology is not considered perfect yet is that people are playing them through Ampegs or little practice amps. And the same assumption you made earlier in that thread when you insisted that because we were talking about the audible properties of power tubes and output transformers that we were completely ignorant of the difference between a combo amp and a high-fidelity reproduction system.
Interesting thoughts. I agree the early heads came up short. Hence how I would up with a Randall RB2000.
I din't read the whole thread, but I just wanted to answer the original poster's question.
I can't fathom why people need so many watts. Anyway, to each his own!
My ideal solid state head would be around 300W, with Gain, Bass, Mid, Treble and Master controls only. A tube at the preamp stage might be a good idea, but if you can build a warm solid state preamp, than no need for it I guess. The only other feature I'd need is a good integrated balanced output that would rivel the best DI boxes. Then I'd be ready to RAWK!
I can't fathom why people need so many watts. Anyway, to each his own!
My ideal solid state head would be around 300W, with Gain, Bass, Mid, Treble and Master controls only. A tube at the preamp stage might be a good idea, but if you can build a warm solid state preamp, than no need for it I guess. The only other feature I'd need is a good integrated balanced output that would rivel the best DI boxes. Then I'd be ready to RAWK!
Show me the test data. Thats all i ask. The same could be siad about your many diatribes here now as to the antiquated thinking.
I assume nothing. Most bassists are idiots are more guitarists. Take it as you will. The proof of this statement is fettered out in the sales at most commercial retailers.
I assume nothing. Most bassists are idiots are more guitarists. Take it as you will. The proof of this statement is fettered out in the sales at most commercial retailers.
Well define watts. Good watts ? Rms ? Program ? Clean wattage ? at what THD do we cutoff power handling ?
I could look into a tub input and the amp I am thinking of duplicating already has a pretty killer pre/post eq Di and compressor. Some might disagree but thats fine.
I could look into a tub input and the amp I am thinking of duplicating already has a pretty killer pre/post eq Di and compressor. Some might disagree but thats fine.
I din't read the whole thread, but I just wanted to answer the original poster's question.
I can't fathom why people need so many watts. Anyway, to each his own!
My ideal solid state head would be around 300W, with Gain, Bass, Mid, Treble and Master controls only. A tube at the preamp stage might be a good idea, but if you can build a warm solid state preamp, than no nedd for it I guess. The only other feature I'd need is a good integrated balanced output that would rivel the best DI boxes. Then I'd be ready to RAWK!
May very well do that down the road. Myer sound is good stuff for sure. Never been to fond of bag end. Nice quality stuff just not my tatse.
RMS watts, I guess. Don't know much about all the tech stuff, sorry!
All I want to be able to do with the tube pre is crank up the gain to get a touch of saucy overdrive. I guess it could be done without tubes, though...
The day may come when solid state comes full circle to the point where we can replicate tubes but that day is not here. I will look into a few scheme but as I siad I am looking at interest.
First stage build a functional amp. Harder then it sounds.
First stage build a functional amp. Harder then it sounds.
RMS watts, I guess. Don't know much about all the tech stuff, sorry!
All I want to be able to do with the tube pre is crank up the gain to get a touch of saucy overdrive. I guess it could be done without tubes, though...
How? The entire reason for bi-amping in the first place was the inability of speaker level crossovers to handle the required power. Now that we have good full range speaker systems bi-amping is unnecessary at best and obsolete at worst. It is also wasteful of resources and power.
Your point about older SS amps being easy to repair is somewhat true. Blown semiconductors can be replaced with modern more capable versions and the amp made to work again. So what??? I have been building my own tube and SS amps since the Sixties. I still do build tube guitar amps and bass pre-amps but now only as a side hobby. If I wanted to build a SS power amp of say 1KW output it would cost me something like $450-500. I can buy a Carvin DCM1000 for a bit over $300. Why would I bother? It makes no economic sense.
You are talking about copying some one else's design and selling the result. Just as a question - what gives you the right to do so??? Don't you think that the person who actually did the work in designing the product in the first place should be given some of the profit?? If you copy a CD onto say a tape to play in your car there would be no problem. Try selling that copy and the full force of the law will end up on your shoulders!
Talking about profit, how do you expect to make any? If you do a good professional job of cloning an amplifier it's going to cost you big bucks per unit. You would not have the scale to buy the components you'll need at a price point that people will be willing to pay. Trust me, I've been through this. An example if I may: Trainwreck. The guy made and exact copy of a VOX AC30. He made a superb job of doing it. The price, however, was in the range of $10.000 US. That's no small change. Some guitarists were prepared to pay that but very few compared with how many people play the guitar. So how many units do you think that you'll be able to move of an obsolete amplifier with absolutely no vintage vibe? If you want to build one for yourself go right ahead and I wish you luck with it. Remember though that the amp you think gives a tone to dream of could very well be disliked intensely by the majority of your fellow bassists.
Paul
Didn't I read elsewhere that you use a Peavey 3620 cabinet ?
For someone who prides them selves in hearing MP3 coding, and loves true power to produce note fundementals..................you use a cab that was a piece of crap.
I had one, and could not sell it fast enough.
For someone who prides them selves in hearing MP3 coding, and loves true power to produce note fundementals..................you use a cab that was a piece of crap.
I had one, and could not sell it fast enough.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
I thought they were as good as a lot of other cabs people were playing at the time they came out. And they make dandy retrofitting for rehearsal hall rigs that seldom get moved. Anyway seems like it would be a little less hostile to discuss the topic rather than what girl the guy might be dating or his choice in clothing or whatever ; }
The points you're making... it sounds to me like you're less happy with the markets amps than with their speaker cabinets. There are a number of amps out there with huge power, low frequency output, and good control of it, IMHO only.
It sounds like what you want to hear is a speaker cab that can give you the awesome quake produced by, say, an orchestral bass drum struck next to your head. Y'know, just -gutshaking-.
The only times I've heard this have been at large concerts, and even then only rarely.
In my playing, I would LOVE to have that ability, but I can only carry/afford so much, and I generally rely on FOH reinforcement, which I've definately never heard this rumble from.
It sounds like what you want to hear is a speaker cab that can give you the awesome quake produced by, say, an orchestral bass drum struck next to your head. Y'know, just -gutshaking-.
The only times I've heard this have been at large concerts, and even then only rarely.
In my playing, I would LOVE to have that ability, but I can only carry/afford so much, and I generally rely on FOH reinforcement, which I've definately never heard this rumble from.
I am not talking about his choice in clothing or dating habits.
I mentioned his choice of bass cab which is quite relevant to his discussion of cabs good for bi-amping, and definitely relevant to his discussion about his amp being better than other for producing pure low end power to reproduce fundementals.
Yes, that cab was decent............in it's time. Not by todays standards. I was using one up until 2 years ago, so I am talking from firsthand recent experience.
That cab is no way capable of producing even a E fundemental, and is in no way a "hi-fi" cab that lends itself perfectly to bi-amping. I would say it goes a long way in debunking his overall argument.
