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any go bigger than 18 anymore?
- Thread starter flameworker
- Start date
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I think drivers like this swing the opposite way of using something like the 3010LF. You are paying a premium for size. There are a few 15" drivers out there that are amazing. A pair would cost less, and outperform this single driver. Trade off being a bigger box.
Just goes to show that everything is a compromise.
Just goes to show that everything is a compromise.
Alright, maybe not the best thread to ask.. but : if I look at the size of speakers, I always think about giving extra low, or supporting the lower stuff better.
Lets say I have a 5 string bass and tune the low B down to A, what is better to use : 10 inch, 12 inch or 15 inch?
Lets say I have a 5 string bass and tune the low B down to A, what is better to use : 10 inch, 12 inch or 15 inch?
The size of a driver has almost nothing to do with its frequency response. And a properly tuned box with a 10" driver can have more low end extension than a 15" driver that is in the wrong box. Box tuning has a lot to do with cab performance, probably equal in importance to driver specifications in determining overall cab performance.
Speaker size only tells you the size of the speaker. Make no other conjectures with out more information.
Nowadays with these high-xmax neo speakers you can get, even the importance of size for moving air has diminished. So you really can't tell a thing from the size of the speaker alone.
I've done the speaker size circle back - went from 10s, to 12s, to 15s, and now back to 10s.
More than that- it's about how you perceive the low notes on stage, and how well the speaker cone will reproduce the low notes. I will probably start a war again, but in my experience, a wad of tens sounds better to me close up, than 18's, given an equal cone area, and similar, well tuned ported boxes. But the 18's tend to sound better away from them - IOW I think an 18 will project more than a group of tens will. And a 20 or 30 will project more, but I doubt you'll hear much tone out of it. OTOH, larger speakers will sound different depending on where you are standing, relative to the cabinet. And I think that proximity, speaker location in relationship to your ears, and room coupling are overlooked in the discussion of speaker size and cabinet design. I played one of those 21" EV's way back, at a music store, using a Fender Showman amp. It was in a tuned slot ported box, designed for that speaker - I couldn't hear much standing 3 feet away from it, but the thing was rattling everything in the room...
That's a function of it not having a lot of mids and highs + the room causing standing waves to bounce around and multiply. Now if that 18" was designed to have more mids and highs (and yes, it can be done, although it's not very practical), your results would have been different.
(If i'm not wrong) Sort of tunes up like a LF3015 in 3 cu ft but with 1500W gives maybe 6 dB more output than an 3015LF @450W. So then, like two 3015LFs with 900W input? ~11 lb. Could give a smaller, lighter, and more expensive cab than a 151566. That's an advantage I suppose if one needs that kind of acoustic power.
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
- Disclosures
- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
Madison used to make a 24" if I remember correctly.
Back in the old days there were a few 36" drivers around.
The biggest I have ever used was an 18. I had a Peavey 1x18 folded horn and an Acoustic 301 folded horn cab. The Acoustic was much better.
These days I have 6 DIY cabs 1 1x18, 2 1x15, and 3 2x10, all are 8 ohms so I can put any 2 together or just run one. The 1x18 goes really well with a 2x10.
18s and 10s seem to go well together, but 15s and 10s don't.
Back in the old days there were a few 36" drivers around.
The biggest I have ever used was an 18. I had a Peavey 1x18 folded horn and an Acoustic 301 folded horn cab. The Acoustic was much better.
These days I have 6 DIY cabs 1 1x18, 2 1x15, and 3 2x10, all are 8 ohms so I can put any 2 together or just run one. The 1x18 goes really well with a 2x10.
18s and 10s seem to go well together, but 15s and 10s don't.
With a 2.28 inch Xmax, I'd think it could seriously move some air...
with enough power behind it.
with enough power behind it.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- 5
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Before assuming it would be a great choice, it would be helpful to understand HOW the spec's might relate. This driver has potential under SOME conditions but IMo would be a poor choice for MOST conditions that a bass guitar cabinet might be used in. Look closely at the response plot and notice what may be happening at the low end, and the box size for reasonable tunings get's pretty large for bass guitar applications IME. Also I would expect the mid voicing to be both muddy and un-natural as the higher sensitivity in the 500-3k range is undoubtedly augmented by some serious beaming (not a problem in subwoofer applications)
From what I gather looking over this driver's docs, it looks targeted towards a large ported box subwoofer applications, with DSP correction, which is why the large Xmax and power handling are so important. There's no free lunch, and this is what it taked for THIS KIND of pro audio application. It's a good example of a very thoroughly engineered and robustly built driver that doesn't match a bass guitar application as well as other drivers (including those in their own line) might.
From what I gather looking over this driver's docs, it looks targeted towards a large ported box subwoofer applications, with DSP correction, which is why the large Xmax and power handling are so important. There's no free lunch, and this is what it taked for THIS KIND of pro audio application. It's a good example of a very thoroughly engineered and robustly built driver that doesn't match a bass guitar application as well as other drivers (including those in their own line) might.
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If size is what matters, then you have to go with go with electrostatics or magnetostatic speakers. 6 feet all, three feet wide, 1 inch thick and no box. For high and midrange sound they are some of the absolute best sounding speakers you can buy; but they typically have weak bass as it takes so much power to drive the huge surface area.
In terms of the physics of the situation, if I had two perfectly match cabinets but one had four 10" drivers and the other had a single 22" driver and I was standing some distance from the cabinet, I would not be able to hear a difference between them. Think of it like light blubs - one cabinet has a 100W bulb and the other has 4 25W bulbs. Up close, you could see the four distinct bulbs, but at a distance they are going to blur into one and look just like the single 100W bulb. So the thing is, for the same sound quality, it's a lot easier, cost effective and reliable to make a great sounding 22" speaker by using an array of four 10" speakers (with a 2" gap between them) than to design and build a super awesome 22" speaker.
-Scott
In terms of the physics of the situation, if I had two perfectly match cabinets but one had four 10" drivers and the other had a single 22" driver and I was standing some distance from the cabinet, I would not be able to hear a difference between them. Think of it like light blubs - one cabinet has a 100W bulb and the other has 4 25W bulbs. Up close, you could see the four distinct bulbs, but at a distance they are going to blur into one and look just like the single 100W bulb. So the thing is, for the same sound quality, it's a lot easier, cost effective and reliable to make a great sounding 22" speaker by using an array of four 10" speakers (with a 2" gap between them) than to design and build a super awesome 22" speaker.
-Scott
