Double Bass Any Input on this Bass?

[Len S]

About to pull the trigger, and it's down to a New Standard LaScala most likely, and something like this. https://www.gewamusicusa.com/item/.us403.750

PS Have not played this yet, but getting ready to take one home for a trial. It's a bit over my price range so determining whether it's worth the additional $1K for a carved back, especially given the strong feelings on the NS basses.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

AM I missing something? The GEWA is a fully carved bass, right? Spruce top, maple back and sides? Are you looking at a new LaScala hybrid?

 

[Len S]

AM I missing something? The GEWA is a fully carved bass, right? Spruce top, maple back and sides? Are you looking at a new LaScala hybrid?

Yup. The LaScala's gonna come in at 6900. This at 8K.

 

[Mgaisbacher]

I had a "GEWA" ply bass as my first instrument. it was a okay ply bass and I have never seen an of their more higher end models, that being said I really do not think you can go wrong with a New Standard La Scala. A La Scala has been my main bass for the past few years and I have nothing but good things to say about them, I think they are hard to beat in a price to quality ratio.

 

[Len S]

I had a "GEWA" ply bass as my first instrument. it was a okay ply bass and I have never seen an of their more higher end models, that being said I really do not think you can go wrong with a New Standard La Scala. A La Scala has been my main bass for the past few years and I have nothing but good things to say about them, I think they are hard to beat in a price to quality ratio.

Yeah. I think the plys are built in Asia. This one is built in Germany. But I hear nothing but good about the LaScala. I tried a Pamplona and liked it, but am waiting for the LaScala to come in.

 

[damonsmith]

If you want to just spend the money for something unquestionably solid, the NS all day long, no question. With patience, you can get a fully carved forever bass for less than either by just going out and trying basses in the shops.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

You'd have to play each of the two basses to find out which you prefer. If you have to mail order, I think the NS would be a safer bet.

 

[lurk]

Some of those New Standards are very nice and hold their own against more expensive fully carved instruments. Gotta play it, of course.

 

[Ed S]

The New Standard Bass - Cleveland Model
New Standard Cleveland/La Scala
ply $4500/$4600
hybrid $6400/$6500
carved $8500

The Best Introductory Double Basses in 2019 | UB Standard model Basses
Upton Standard
ply $2995
hybrid $3995
carved $4950

I'm confused. I've heard some folk describe Uptons as overpriced, or including a "premium", but have not heard the same about New Standards. From nearly all of what I've heard - both make fine basses. Just wondering about the difference I have perceived WRT how some folk view their prices.

 

[sean_on_bass]

The New Standard Bass - Cleveland Model
New Standard Cleveland/La Scala
ply $4500/$4600
hybrid $6400/$6500
carved $8500

The Best Introductory Double Basses in 2019 | UB Standard model Basses
Upton Standard
ply $2995
hybrid $3995
carved $4950

I'm confused. I've heard some folk describe Uptons as overpriced, or including a "premium", but have not heard the same about New Standards. From nearly all of what I've heard - both make fine basses. Just wondering about the difference I have perceived WRT how some folk view their prices.

Definitely interesting. Glad i got my Upton Ply when they were $2K But yes i also am curious about why there would be a substantial price difference between two laminate basses where neither feature any "corner cutting" or crappy hardware/materials. I've always thought Uptons were reasonably priced, and this seems like a sign that i am right. As for the price increase from maybe 5 years back, i think that American made instruments have just gone up overall. I have seen American Fender guitars nearly double in price over the last 20 years.

 

[Len S]

The New Standard Bass - Cleveland Model
New Standard Cleveland/La Scala
ply $4500/$4600
hybrid $6400/$6500
carved $8500

The Best Introductory Double Basses in 2019 | UB Standard model Basses
Upton Standard
ply $2995
hybrid $3995
carved $4950

I'm confused. I've heard some folk describe Uptons as overpriced, or including a "premium", but have not heard the same about New Standards. From nearly all of what I've heard - both make fine basses. Just wondering about the difference I have perceived WRT how some folk view their prices.

Shopping for both of these, and including Upton...I think Wil has increased the NS prices slightly. They now go for $6900 ($7500 with a removable neck option), so his website isn't updated. In terms of Upton, their "Standard" is that, but that would require going with the "standard" Standard...that finish color, regular tuners, regular fingerboard (not solo, no position dots, etc). As soon as you want a different option, you're into the Bohemian territory. Additionally, The NS Pamplona and LaScala are round back hybrids vs flat-back. Not sure in a hybrid if that makes a difference in price. Further NS imports their bodies from Germany. Wil does the varnish work, and Kieran O'Hara does the setup work, whereas of course, Upton is doing all this in their shop. I kind of think of the NS's as the "Sadowskys" of double basses. Roger isn't shaping his own parts, necks, etc, but he sources I'm sure very high end components, and then his assembly and setup work command relatively high prices.

 

[Len S]

Shopping for both of these, and including Upton...I think Wil has increased the NS prices slightly. They now go for $6900 ($7500 with a removable neck option), so his website isn't updated. In terms of Upton, their "Standard" is that, but that would require going with the "standard" Standard...that finish color, regular tuners, regular fingerboard (not solo, no position dots, etc). As soon as you want a different option, you're into the Bohemian territory. Additionally, The NS Pamplona and LaScala are round back hybrids vs flat-back. Not sure in a hybrid if that makes a difference in price. Further NS imports their bodies from Germany. Wil does the varnish work, and Kieran O'Hara does the setup work, whereas of course, Upton is doing all this in their shop. I kind of think of the NS's as the "Sadowskys" of double basses. Roger isn't shaping his own parts, necks, etc, but he sources I'm sure very high end components, and then his assembly and setup work command relatively high prices.

Also to be clear...the NS is a hybrid, so I'm comparing the LaScala to Upton's Brescian. At that rate they likely come in at about the exact same price.

 

[Ed S]

...In terms of Upton, their "Standard" is that, but that would require going with the "standard" Standard...that finish color, regular tuners, regular fingerboard (not solo, no position dots, etc). As soon as you want a different option, ...

Thanks. I know pretty much nothing about NS, and I didn't attempt to really do an exhaustive comparison. All I did was take a quick look and compare what looked to me to be comparable lower priced "starting prices." Heck - I was even surprised to see Upton offered a carved "Standard." I assumed a bottomline Bohemian might be a better comparison to the NS.

The bottomline for me, tho, was it did not appear clear to me that ALL Uptons are significantly pricier than ALL NS. But I did not recall folk accusing NS of being overpriced.

I can imagine it likely that imports such as Shens/Christophers would be somewhat less expensive than either, and I could imagine folk debating whether either NS or Upton were worth the higher price. Good to have different products available to appeal to all.

 

[damonsmith]

People won't like to hear this: The Upton's I've heard and played have all been solid, decent basses - and less so when the price was considered.
All the New Standards I've heard and played have been impressive - even the plys were impressive for a ply.

My research into such things is not in the context of being an avant garde jazz player, but in my "day job" as a professional double bass teacher. Part of my work is being able to recommend a bass to a student in good conscience.
Because I state my opinions flatly, it can seem to many that I am ripping on an instrument they themselves own and that is never the intent. People should love and play what they have. This is about recommendations.

 

[Ed S]

Updated to include Upton Bohemian base prices, in case that is a better comparison.

New Standard Cleveland/La Scala
ply $4500/$4600
hybrid $6400/$6500
carved $8500

Upton Standard/Bohemian
ply $2995/$4250
hybrid $3995/$4250
carved $4950/$6000flat, $7500round

I'd just never done this direct comparison before. Should prolly toss some Shens into the mix as well...

Samuel Shen Musical Instruments Product Page
laminate Shen 80 $1940
hybrid Shen 150 $3425
carved Shen Willow $5250flat

Knowing nothing of Shens, I just picked the lowest priced at each level.

I know there is no comparing of apples to apples, but it looks like:

ply: Shen is BY FAR least expensive, NS BY FAR the most expensive. Could a ply be worth >2x as much?

hybrid: Shen/Upton pretty close, NS a good 50% pricier

carved: Upton has the least expensive option, w/ NS nearly twice as expensive.

 

[Len S]

Note the Upton hybrids are flat back. Again, not sure if round back increases the cost, and NS doesn't seem to differentiate. While NS currently ship standard as a roundback, he does make flatbacks on request and they are the same price. Current LaScala and Pamplona are 6900 for the hybrid. So these are not apples to apples comparisons. While you might compare the LaScala to the Bresican, I think Upton probably does more to that bass than pattern with violin corners. Just two different approaches altogether. I also played a fully carved Pamplona at Gage, and it was I think 10.5K...way over my price range, but I did love it. That was the first bass I've played where I felt it was "it". If it were 2K cheaper, I would have figured out a way to get the money for it. I've never played a bass that felt truly like home to me, and that was the one.

 

[Ed S]

... That was the first bass I've played where I felt it was "it". If it were 2K cheaper, I would have figured out a way to get the money for it. I've never played a bass that felt truly like home to me, and that was the one.

My experience w/ such a bass was an old carved that was set ip as a BG cannon, for which they were asking $10k. I was at a music camp a couple of years back, and a local player had lent it to the instructor. If I hadn't had 2 kids getting married that year, I woulda considered whether I coulda swung it. But it really moved my needle from looking at old plys in the $3k range as possible significant improvements on my entry-level ply.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

I kind of think of the NS's as the "Sadowskys" of double basses. Roger isn't shaping his own parts, necks, etc, but he sources I'm sure very high end components, and then his assembly and setup work command relatively high prices.

Roger is a gem. Years ago, I was in town and dropped into his shop to check it out, and walked out with upgraded parts for an older bass of his that I owned at no charge and without me asking for a gimme. That simply doesn’t happen in double bass world in my experience.

I’ve played New Standards, Upton plies and owned two or three Shens. All of them were devoid of tone colors I consider essential and were as boring as flavorless Jell-O. Bye-bye.

Ten large for a bass set up for bluegrass and three large for an old ply is totally insane.

 

[Ed S]

...
Ten large for a bass set up for bluegrass and three large for an old ply is totally insane.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you obviously have far bass greater experience and luthier skills than I. But I shopped for old ply for a number of years, and my clear experience was that the going price for a decent quality, decently setup old ply was in the range of $2500-3500 - most often in the $3-3.5k range. Especially so if you are going through a reputable shop - something many folk may wish to do if they lack the skill/tools to do their own work.

I've seen a lot of old plys advertised for lower prices - mostly by private parties. I've played a lot of such basses which need - at the very least - some seams glued, new strings. So someone who is not doing their own work is throwing an extra $500+ on top of the purchase price.

You might have access to a wealth of cheaper old plys which you are able to rebuild - especially if you are willing to wait and travel. But that approach may not be best for the average player.

Re: the $10k bass - I'm not sure why it being set up for BG should matter in its value. People certainly pay $10k and up for old carved basses, and it could be setup for whatever the player wishes. My personal experience was that I played 100s of basses, none of which wowed me compared to my cheapo Engle which was dialed in to my preferences. This was the first bass I had played - at any price - that knocked my socks off. (Of course, a problem is that most of the really pricey basses I had tried were set up for orchestra/jazz - so I was unable to really appreciate them.) I had decided that the old ply/$>$3500 range had little to offer me. If I had $10k in the bank and would derive enjoyment from owning/playing that bass - whether or not that is insane is a judgment only I could make.

But, as I said, opinions vary.

 

[Len S]

Roger is a gem. Years ago, I was in town and dropped into his shop to check it out, and walked out with upgraded parts for an older bass of his that I owned at no charge and without me asking for a gimme. That simply doesn’t happen in double bass world in my experience.

I’ve played New Standards, Upton plies and owned two or three Shens. All of them were devoid of tone colors I consider essential and were as boring as flavorless Jell-O. Bye-bye.

Ten large for a bass set up for bluegrass and three large for an old ply is totally insane.

Yup. Roger is fantastic. He loaned me a couple basses for a NYC recording session I was doing years back. He's wonderful. I could never afford one of his basses, and I found "my sound" with a four and five string StingRay and an eBay find of an American Jazz reissue. Interesting regarding your lack of joy from NSs and Shens. I didn't love the Shens I tried (everything from the 80 to the 100 series to the 200). They were "okay" but given the softness of the market, I don't want to be caught if I ever want to upgrade.