Any suggestions? No P.A.

[SpamBot]

Drop the 115 for another 410. Generally, 410s beat out 115s in volume so much that it's almost not worth it to have the 115. Plus the average 410 has more low end than a 115.

 

[lojo]

My band is playing a small club this Friday with no P.A.

This band is a heavy metal band with two VERY loud and inconsiderate guitarists who love volume wars.
A drummer who's concept of dynamics is to hit every single piece of his kit with absolute full force.
And a vocalist who is the only one who is going through the club's idea of a PA.

we do these kind of gigs with vocals (and perhaps sax) going through our PA, you have to then set the levels to the drums (or vocals if pa is weak) and that is as loud as you can be and still have an ok mix, good enough or not. The problem with this approach is if the guitarists go higher then the drummer hits everything hard with no dynamics as you say and the sound of the band dies (unless your a punter who loves lead guitar only)

With discipline only does it work, something us non pro bassists and drummers can do, guitarists is another question

 

[thudfromafar]

keep trying to build your other band project. also may i ask what pedals you have compiled?

 

[totallybacan]

I live in the eastern shore of maryland, and the music situation is the exact same as what you are describing. What a shame, really, since the audience only becomes used to hearing horrible bands. I was using a 410 and 118, but wasn't cutting through very well. I ended up changing literally everything in my rig, and we just had a show in a bar last night where I carried the room with just a 410. Ridiculous how different it was. In general, my recommendations would be boost second fundamental (100-150), lower bass to soften load on speakers from over excursion, and make sure you don't have too much cut on the bass, like having the tone knob rolled all the way off or having only bass boosted.

Also, I was using flatwounds (they sounded so good!) but on my new bass I switched roundwounds just to add some more treble. If you are a pick player, this may not be as big of a problem but you could still try it.

 

[Hector_G]

keep trying to build your other band project. also may i ask what pedals you have compiled?

The pedals I have compiled so far...
Signal chain goes like this...
Hartke VXL....
Boss SYB-5 with expression pedal...
Dr. Scientist Frazz Dazzler...
Devi Ever BIT fuzz...
Line 6 FM4 w/ expression pedal.....
Zoom B2.1u

The BIT fuzz going into the FM4's Qtron modeler is awesome by the way.

My Loop Master 4 looper w/ all bypass is being built right now.
Still want to get the Devi Ever Cherry Pop and a Digitech Jamman Looper.


SO anyway.... on to the show.
The show went amazingly well. The guys actually turned down this time. But NOT for reasons you might think.
Get this...
One guitarist is only running off of one speaker. He blew the other 3 in his cab.

The other guitarist just doesn't know how to work his new head. So he was having volume issues.

We've never sounded better.

They actually saw/heard first hand what turning down (or just not being able to turn up) can do to a mix. It sounded well balanced and just... GOOD.

During the show I thought I might be a little too loud. So after our second song I went over and turned my rig down.

After the show I asked a couple of people what they thought of the mix and they said, "Man! You should have turned up the bass!"

So what the hell? I thought I was coming through too strong. I wasn't on the stage, I was on the floor in front of the stage. A good 15 feet from my rig.
So I thought I had a good idea of how the overall mix sounded like to the audience. Guess not.

Maybe they just like a lot of bass in their metal.
HA!

But overall a super fun show. I did employ the advice that was given to me here. I appreciate it. It all seemed to work well.
Thanks again TB.

 

[jaywa]

One guitarist is only running off of one speaker. He blew the other 3 in his cab.

Glad the gig worked out on your part, though!

 

[LowEndDrew]

Glad to hear it worked out. Do your bandmates agree that it sounded better and do they want to amend their ways? I played in a metal band once similar to the way this sounds. Loud drummer, 2 guitarists through 4x12s... and at the time i had a SWR workingman 15... 'nuff said. They were very considerate for volume though. Work with your bandmates on EQ and volume matching. See what freq the guitars are dominating, and work with them on a group EQ set up for everyone. If everyone is fighting over the same frequencies, everyone is jsut going to turn up louder. There's no way 1000 watts through a 410 and a 115 is not going to dominate any group you play with.

 

[JimmyM]

BTW, I'm a firm believer in the bass taking its rightful place in a mix, but I'm also a believer in the band getting a good mix within itself, too. If you think the bass was too loud, chances are it might have been. But when you're using stage volume, it does help to get out in the crowd and listen, even if you have to use a long cord at first or a wireless. Bass is easy to mix but it can play a few tricks on you.

 

[bassplayer7768521]

You need band mates who understand the importance of dynamics. 'Nuff said.

 

[NWB]

The pedals I have compiled so far...
Signal chain goes like this...
Hartke VXL....
Boss SYB-5 with expression pedal...
Dr. Scientist Frazz Dazzler...
Devi Ever BIT fuzz...
Line 6 FM4 w/ expression pedal.....
Zoom B2.1u

The BIT fuzz going into the FM4's Qtron modeler is awesome by the way.

My Loop Master 4 looper w/ all bypass is being built right now.
Still want to get the Devi Ever Cherry Pop and a Digitech Jamman Looper.


SO anyway.... on to the show.
The show went amazingly well. The guys actually turned down this time. But NOT for reasons you might think.
Get this...
One guitarist is only running off of one speaker. He blew the other 3 in his cab.

The other guitarist just doesn't know how to work his new head. So he was having volume issues.

We've never sounded better.

They actually saw/heard first hand what turning down (or just not being able to turn up) can do to a mix. It sounded well balanced and just... GOOD.

During the show I thought I might be a little too loud. So after our second song I went over and turned my rig down.

After the show I asked a couple of people what they thought of the mix and they said, "Man! You should have turned up the bass!"

So what the hell? I thought I was coming through too strong. I wasn't on the stage, I was on the floor in front of the stage. A good 15 feet from my rig.
So I thought I had a good idea of how the overall mix sounded like to the audience. Guess not.

Maybe they just like a lot of bass in their metal.
HA!

But overall a super fun show. I did employ the advice that was given to me here. I appreciate it. It all seemed to work well.
Thanks again TB.

I've got to say, that's a pretty damn funny story.

My take is that these guitarists don't (or didn't?) care if the bass or vocals are even there at all. Put the two guitars in a room with the drummer and let them battle it out to see who "wins" the Great Volume War of 2009.

 

[Stumbo]

.... I was on the floor in front of the stage. A good 15 feet from my rig.

I suggest a wireless so you can get out 30-40 feet or more from the stage during sound check or even during the gig when filled with peoples so you can get a more objective hearing of what's really going on.