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Any suggestions? No P.A.

Hector_G

Hector_G

Apr 6, 2009
545
60
El Paso, Texas
www.myspace.com
#1
My band is playing a small club this Friday with no P.A.

This band is a heavy metal band with two VERY loud and inconsiderate guitarists who love volume wars.
A drummer who's concept of dynamics is to hit every single piece of his kit with absolute full force.
And a vocalist who is the only one who is going through the club's idea of a PA. (2 "12 cabs hanging from the ceiling)

The last time we played there, one of my friends told me that I did not cut through at all.

I'm playing through two Hartke Hydrive cabs. The 4X10 and the 1X15. It's powered with the Carvin R1000 for anyone who is familiar with the head.

I usually run the EQ completely flat. I bypass the graphic EQ section as well.

I am aware that boosting mids really does help cut through the mix. But I forget which specific frequencies to really focus on.

I always bypass the 3 Pre shape EQ buttons. I've found those don't help at all.

The main EQ consists of
Bass
Mid Sweep which is +/-12db @200Hz-2kHz
and High

Where should I focus the boost on the mid sweep?

I can also go through the graphic which is
+/- 12db @ 50,80,125,250,500,800,1.3k,2.6k and 5k

I've tried so much experimenting and I just can't find a good setting. I don't care much for "my tone" when playing live. I just want a good supporting tone that cuts through when playing live.

Anyone with any suggestions? Or experience with proper EQing. Please help me out.

Oh, the bass I'm playing with is a Warwick Rockbass Corvette Standard 5 string. It's strung up with GHS Bass Boomers.
 
#3
Crank 800 Hz,1 kHz, and 2.5 kHz, wear earplugs, and look for a band that knows that good metal sound is about the depth of the band's sound, not the volume of the guitars. I'm guessing that the kick and vocals won't be heard, either.
 
#5
If you're playing small clubs with that kind of gear and volume, this will be a very temporary problem as your band is not going to be hired anywhere more than once. I foresee a very limited lifespan for your current band unless your guitarists and drummer grow up fast. Would advise you start networking for another opportunity ASAP... with some players who have a lot more maturity.

Sorry to be blunt, but it's the truth.

BTW your singer is going to get smoked at that gig. No way that puny house P.A. will carry him.
 
#6
jaywa said:
If you're playing small clubs with that kind of gear and volume, this will be a very temporary problem as your band is not going to be hired anywhere more than once. I foresee a very limited lifespan for your current band unless your guitarists and drummer grow up fast. Would advise you start networking for another opportunity ASAP... with some players who have a lot more maturity.

Sorry to be blunt, but it's the truth.

BTW your singer is going to get smoked at that gig. No way that puny house P.A. will carry him.
Click to expand...

No need to be sorry at all. You speak the absolute truth.
Now here's my unfortunate situation.
This is El Paso. The most pathetic excuse for a music scene ever. No one ever actually gets payed. All the venues around here kindly "let" bands play. "It's for exposure" of course. So, getting hired isn't exactly a problem. It's a free for all down here. You hear about a club that has an open night and every single band in town scurries to snatch it up.

The only paid musicians are the cover bands.


As far as networking for other musicians...
Every single metal band here are the exact same way. It seems that this city is filled to the brim with amateurs as far as the metal, rock, punk, screamo, whatever scene goes. No one cares about anything but being the loudest or most extreme band in town.

Well, tomorrow at practice I'm going to lay down the law. I'm sick of being embarassed by horrendous sounding live shows.
Let's see how pissed off these guys get at my recommendation of turning down their volumes to at least 6 or 7. :rollno:
The funny thing is, I don't think the crowds even care. Just as long as they see hair and fingers flying all over the place, it's all good. They are pleased.

I gotta get out of this place.
 
#7
Hector_G said:
No need to be sorry at all. You speak the absolute truth.
Now here's my unfortunate situation.
This is El Paso. The most pathetic excuse for a music scene ever. No one ever actually gets payed. All the venues around here kindly "let" bands play. "It's for exposure" of course. So, getting hired isn't exactly a problem. It's a free for all down here. You hear about a club that has an open night and every single band in town scurries to snatch it up.

The only paid musicians are the cover bands.


As far as networking for other musicians...
Every single metal band here are the exact same way. It seems that this city is filled to the brim with amateurs as far as the metal, rock, punk, screamo, whatever scene goes. No one cares about anything but being the loudest or most extreme band in town.

Well, tomorrow at practice I'm going to lay down the law. I'm sick of being embarassed by horrendous sounding live shows.
Let's see how pissed off these guys get at my recommendation of turning down their volumes to at least 6 or 7. :rollno:
The funny thing is, I don't think the crowds even care. Just as long as they see hair and fingers flying all over the place, it's all good. They are pleased.

I gotta get out of this place.
Click to expand...
Crowds do care. They don't necessarily know why the sound is bad, and they can be somewhat forgiving if your band has a good energy, but they care if it's really bad.
 
#8
I'm going to recommend this for bass amp EQ in your unfortunate situation:

*cut a bit @ 75 Hz

*boost a bit @ 125 Hz

*cut generously where the guitars are strongest, probably between 500 Hz and 1,500 Hz. Experiment a bit if you have the ability to.

*boost a bit @ 2,500 Hz


The idea of the cut between 500 Hz and 1,500 Hz is to avoid competing with the guitar frequencies and helping them to cut through more. This might seem counter intuitive but I'm familiar with the guitar volume war and it's always driven by each guitar player feeling that they aren't cutting through so they just reach back and turn up a bit. If they can hear themselves better because there is less bass in their frequency band then they will have less desire to turn up. In the meantime you have boosted at 125 Hz and 2,500 Hz to compensate for the cut and you should cut through better as well.

Unless these two clowns you call guitarists are really that clueless and they're habitually turning up no matter what awful sounds are going on around them, in which case you're just going to have to put up with crap sound until you get a different band. :(
 
#10
I know this reply won't be helpful, but...

You are running 1000 watts through a 410 and a 115 in a "small club" and you can't be heard over the guitar and drums? Holy %&$#*! The audience's ears must be bleeding.

I actually went to a small local bar/club last week one night and the band was so loud, they cleared the place. Everyone left. They weren't bad, but they were so loud, everyone except about 10 people who were friends of the band left. The owner was pissed. It just isn't smart to be that loud in a small club.
 
#11
Hector_G said:
As far as networking for other musicians...
Every single metal band here are the exact same way. It seems that this city is filled to the brim with amateurs as far as the metal, rock, punk, screamo, whatever scene goes. No one cares about anything but being the loudest or most extreme band in town.
Click to expand...

This has been my experience with metal/punk musicians everywhere I've ever lived. Sometimes it takes a while to find like-minded people. My suggestion is, always be willing to leave a crappy band, or suggest that a problem member be fired. You'll feel like a jerk sometimes, but you'll meet good musicians much faster.

If it makes you feel any better, I've played with plenty of jazz musicians who think that playing tons of notes over obscure chord changes=good jazz, blues players who can only play in two keys and argue over what "real blues" is, and rock musicians who are eternally stuck in high school, even if that was in the '60s for them. Every genre seems to generate clueless players, it's not just the metal guys.
 
#12
timber22 said:
I know this reply won't be helpful, but...

You are running 1000 watts through a 410 and a 115 in a "small club" and you can't be heard over the guitar and drums? Holy %&$#*! The audience's ears must be bleeding.

I actually went to a small local bar/club last week one night and the band was so loud, they cleared the place. Everyone left. They weren't bad, but they were so loud, everyone except about 10 people who were friends of the band left. The owner was pissed. It just isn't smart to be that loud in a small club.
Click to expand...

This is the delima of big rigs in small rooms! No matter how loud you are, you can't hear! (and the ringing in you ears isn't another angel getting his wings).

I'm with WalterBush and hbarcat. Compete on YOUR TERMS, in the sonic space they cannot invade! Lower than the guitards can go, and higher, if possible.
 
#13
jaywa said:
El Paso... maybe all the people who don't make it in Austin wind up down there...?
Click to expand...

It's exactly reversed. Most of El Paso winds up in Austin.
Every time I go up there it's like, "Damn it. I wanted to take a vacation FROM El Paso."



But anyway, I'll see what happens tomorrow night.
I'll try all suggestions posted here.

As far as getting another band, it's near impossible.
Go figure that these guys are probably 2 of the top 5 best guitarists in El Paso.
But they're what I like to call "All school and no cool".
Definitely the type who think that playing a million notes a measure = AWESOME.
They know their stuff. Hell, one guy just turned 20 and he's a music teacher. One of those super gifted, naturally talented guys. And very well schooled.
The other guy is just incredible.
I like playing with these guys as it's definitely a challenge to keep up. It's fun.

The music is great (IMO of course) and fun to play, but damn, they're absolutely clueless when it comes to this stuff.

If you will...
Link Removed
Let me know what you think.

That's not me in the recordings. I joined after they wrote and recorded these songs. We're going in to rerecord the songs with me on bass and the new guitar player (the prodigy). I have some new stuff to add to the songs.

I'll update after the show is over, for anyone that cares.

Thanks for the discussion guys!
 
#14
They know their stuff. Hell, one guy just turned 20 and he's a music teacher. One of those super gifted, naturally talented guys. And very well schooled.
Click to expand...

And yet, completely clueless on how to work within a band setting. There's so many of those guys around these days, and not just on guitar. Too bad for you... and him.
 
#15
i think now is the time to experiment with a different style you seceretly like weather it be mellow alternative or complete opposite style try it out,that way all your bass powers wont be strainded on this band!
 
#16
Richard G said:
i think now is the time to experiment with a different style you seceretly like weather it be mellow alternative or complete opposite style try it out,that way all your bass powers wont be strainded on this band!
Click to expand...

Oh it's no secret.
I LOVE me some funk and dance music.

I'm almost done building my pedal board. But once again, El Paso... it's so so so hard to find like minded musicians.

I'm trying to piece together an electro, dance, funk type of band. I have plenty of synths and filters waiting to be unleashed upon our unsuspecting populace.
I'll be so disappointed in spending the amount of money I have been to only be playing by myself in my bedroom.
 
#17
Hector_G said:
Oh it's no secret.
I LOVE me some funk and dance music.

I'm almost done building my pedal board. But once again, El Paso... it's so so so hard to find like minded musicians.

I'm trying to piece together an electro, dance, funk type of band. I have plenty of synths and filters waiting to be unleashed upon our unsuspecting populace.
I'll be so disappointed in spending the amount of money I have been to only be playing by myself in my bedroom.
Click to expand...

Don't worry... you've got plenty of rig. Even if you wind up in a "mellower" band down the line, you can scale back to just a half-stack (either the 410 or the 115) and you'll have everything you need without overkillin'. No need to be doing any panic-selling of gear just yet... that's how you lose big money.
 
#19
I just reread this thread and I obviously missed it the first time where you said your rig is a Carvin R1000 into a 4X10 and 1X15

And you can't cut through over the sound of the guitars??? :confused:

Jimminy ******* Christmas!!! :rollno:

Those guitar players are out of control. I think the best piece of advice for you is to make absolutely sure you wear earplugs or you will quickly lose your hearing. Seriously, please take that advice.
 

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