In a straight ballad like One more night it`s best to think in 16th notes, to fill the space and for getting the feel right. Thinking triplets in that scenario would make following the music hard and propably feel quite weird .
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any tips for slow playing technique
- Thread starter Malva kid
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Hey Lagado, thanks for the reply, but can you explain a bit more why dividing each beat as a triplet might help? In the tune that I mentioned the beat is divided in even numbers (quarter, eight, etc). It sounds as if counting triplets would make it harder to follow.
Contrary to the impulse to learn to play fast stuff with lots of notes flying by, I'm here to tell you that sort of thing is way easier than big slow stuff: Who's gonna hear the occasional mini-clam at that speed? Big ballads with few notes are deadly: No place to hide, your stuff is just hanging out there in mid-air !
Find 4 or 5 tunes like that that you really like and really listen to them without the bass and find the rhythm, ultimately the feel of the time through each tune: Then you'll know where you need to be. Until you can grasp that, it's hard to know what your place is, which is to be a big foundation for everything else to rest on.
Not exactly a ballad, but exactly the model for this when I think about it for a minute. Here's 'Bell Bottom Blues' from LAYLA. The late session ace Carl Radle had to find his spot between the great Jim Gordon on drums behind him, and Eric Clapton and Duane Allman in front of him, one hell of a spot to be in. Listen as he works a relatively simple line following the downhill line of the changes under the verse, then witness the brilliant arpeggiated and melodic line he comes up with behind the choruses. You are listening to a master at work, with his lines not only anchoring the tune, syncing with the drums, and adding an underlying melody in the choruses that are exceptional. It rarely gets done any better than this. And you don't need to be some hugely technical player to play this. Brilliant.
And then, you have to play even less. Talking about being all alone out in the great wide open, but yet here is rock solid playing where less is definitely enough, and her Union Station Band wraps around her like a glove, with a solid, less is more bass line from Barry Bales. Here's Allison Krause's cover of Keith Whitley's 'When You Say Nothing at All'. Light and airy, yet solid as a rock at the same time.
Find 4 or 5 tunes like that that you really like and really listen to them without the bass and find the rhythm, ultimately the feel of the time through each tune: Then you'll know where you need to be. Until you can grasp that, it's hard to know what your place is, which is to be a big foundation for everything else to rest on.
Not exactly a ballad, but exactly the model for this when I think about it for a minute. Here's 'Bell Bottom Blues' from LAYLA. The late session ace Carl Radle had to find his spot between the great Jim Gordon on drums behind him, and Eric Clapton and Duane Allman in front of him, one hell of a spot to be in. Listen as he works a relatively simple line following the downhill line of the changes under the verse, then witness the brilliant arpeggiated and melodic line he comes up with behind the choruses. You are listening to a master at work, with his lines not only anchoring the tune, syncing with the drums, and adding an underlying melody in the choruses that are exceptional. It rarely gets done any better than this. And you don't need to be some hugely technical player to play this. Brilliant.
And then, you have to play even less. Talking about being all alone out in the great wide open, but yet here is rock solid playing where less is definitely enough, and her Union Station Band wraps around her like a glove, with a solid, less is more bass line from Barry Bales. Here's Allison Krause's cover of Keith Whitley's 'When You Say Nothing at All'. Light and airy, yet solid as a rock at the same time.
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I personally tend to rely on making the groove feel heavy, you know that millisecond of "slow intention" groove. I have this drumer (in a friend's big modern metal band) who I totally idolize and have analyzed a lot. The guy's a pro, plays to a click track like so, and makes any tempo feel heavy, somewhat "slow", just by smashing what I call "lazy" snare drum beats, exploiting that milliseconds lateness that really works. I try to adapt that to bass when playing slow stuff, hard to explain, I know. It's pretty enjoyable once you adapt to a tasteful point "in the back pocket" (just not too far back it starts sucking. Might not work for every kind of music tho'. Paul Spencer Denman (Sade) is probably the guy I look up to the most when it comes to more pop territories, a master at tastefully pulling back the groove, creator of some real masterpieces of hypnotic slow pop bass.
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Good advice, slow tempo stuff definitely requires more 'musicality', as in perceiving what each instrument is doing in the arrangement. I'll have a listen.
I totally know what you mean, I've always called it groove, but not sure if there's a correct name for it. A friend who's a fantastic drummer always does this as well, the snare is always a tiny bit late causing this heaviness you speak of. I agree that it can be applied to bass as well, 100%.
If the song is straight why wouldn't you count in eighths or sixteenths? Then if you do put in an occasional shorter note it will line up to your count.
How long have you been playing? Are you playing it’s other musicians?
If you are relatively new, a pitcher doesn’t wake up one day and out of nowhere he can throw 95mph. It’s a process that takes time. Believe it or not, you are preparing to be a digital athlete.
You may want to try The Yousician app. Try it out for free, you can buy enhancements if you want to. It will take you a long way on your journey. One other plus with this is you will learn how to read tabs as well.
Can't recall having the problem. Only remember playing ballads with drummers and taking my cues off the hats.
But if I wanted to fix it, here's what I'd try first.
Set your 'nome to half time on the record. Set the bell to the bar count. Play along to both to get a sense of where the clicks fall in the song. When you're ready, lose the recording and speed up your metronome till you can comfortably come out on the clicks every time. Then challenge yourself. Gradually slow it down. As you start to lose the groove stop there and smash that. Move on when you are all over that tempo.
Work up (down?) to way slower than you need to be. You're working on a transferable skill here. The bigger gaps in the halftime count will really exercise your internal clock. Basically the same exercises that help you play fast but going in reverse.
But if I wanted to fix it, here's what I'd try first.
Set your 'nome to half time on the record. Set the bell to the bar count. Play along to both to get a sense of where the clicks fall in the song. When you're ready, lose the recording and speed up your metronome till you can comfortably come out on the clicks every time. Then challenge yourself. Gradually slow it down. As you start to lose the groove stop there and smash that. Move on when you are all over that tempo.
Work up (down?) to way slower than you need to be. You're working on a transferable skill here. The bigger gaps in the halftime count will really exercise your internal clock. Basically the same exercises that help you play fast but going in reverse.
I do church gigs. I get lots of practice at this - it’s all feel, and playing with different drummers, singers, etc, you’re forced into being flexible with your feel - practicing with a metronome would, in my world, not help - the people I play with are anything bit metronomic on slow tunes. With enough practice, though, this becomes much easier.
Groot's suggestions based on carefully administered ass whippings by classical and jazz musicians.
The objective is to INTERNALIZE time correctly so you always know where you are in the flow of the music. For example, if the music is in 4, you hear a steady beat in your head of 1 2 3 4 or ta ta ta ta or what ever works for you without tapping, metronome or drummer. The beat is inside you. If required, subdivide as makes sense. If you have problems placing the 8ths then subdivide as 1&2&3&4&. If you are doing funk and need 16ths, then 1e&a2e&a3e&a4e&a. 16ths are hard and take practice to internalize.
On a really slow tune, subdivide down to 8ths or 16ths. If 12/8, then use triplets 1&a, 2&a, 3&a, 4&a.
All of this really becomes clear when you read sheet music.
When you are sight reading sheet music with an ensemble or orchestra, any time problems will become painfully and embarrassingly apparent. The deadly stuff is not fast passages, but spots with syncopation, few notes and tempo changes.
Metronomes are aids to help you build solid internal time and also to back check any tempo issues when performing.
When you use a metronome, you dont need a click on every beat. I prefer my metronome to click on 1 and 3 for straight music and 2 and 4 for jazz. I am practicing salsa at 180bpm + and clicking on every beat would be annoying and distracting.
Sorry if this was long winded.
The objective is to INTERNALIZE time correctly so you always know where you are in the flow of the music. For example, if the music is in 4, you hear a steady beat in your head of 1 2 3 4 or ta ta ta ta or what ever works for you without tapping, metronome or drummer. The beat is inside you. If required, subdivide as makes sense. If you have problems placing the 8ths then subdivide as 1&2&3&4&. If you are doing funk and need 16ths, then 1e&a2e&a3e&a4e&a. 16ths are hard and take practice to internalize.
On a really slow tune, subdivide down to 8ths or 16ths. If 12/8, then use triplets 1&a, 2&a, 3&a, 4&a.
All of this really becomes clear when you read sheet music.
When you are sight reading sheet music with an ensemble or orchestra, any time problems will become painfully and embarrassingly apparent. The deadly stuff is not fast passages, but spots with syncopation, few notes and tempo changes.
Metronomes are aids to help you build solid internal time and also to back check any tempo issues when performing.
When you use a metronome, you dont need a click on every beat. I prefer my metronome to click on 1 and 3 for straight music and 2 and 4 for jazz. I am practicing salsa at 180bpm + and clicking on every beat would be annoying and distracting.
Sorry if this was long winded.
One othe issue... tapping foot.
I do it occasionally, but I dont need to. I dont have a problem with others doing it. But you will get the stink eye from others in a double bass section.
A quote from a 1918 flute method book by Ernest Wagner:
"Do not count or keep time by moving the body or the feet. Counting must be done mentally. You must think as you play"
Along the way, I have had classical instructors that felt that way.
I do it occasionally, but I dont need to. I dont have a problem with others doing it. But you will get the stink eye from others in a double bass section.
A quote from a 1918 flute method book by Ernest Wagner:
"Do not count or keep time by moving the body or the feet. Counting must be done mentally. You must think as you play"
Along the way, I have had classical instructors that felt that way.
Subdivide more. It feels dumb to count sixteenth notes when playing whole notes but, man, it really does put those whole notes in the pocket.
I personally believe James Jamerson and Jaco were in 16th mode all the time.
There is an alternative method where you only count 16th on the beat with 16th notes which is more common.
One audio cue is remembering the 16ths on a closed high hat (Shaft intro)
Yes, my vote is subdivide and practice with a metronome. You can also set the metronome to 1/8th notes and let it subdivide for you.
FWIW, I was told by a classical conductor that if you must tap your toe do it inside your shoe so it’s not visible. For most other genres feeling and showing the beat demonstratively is ok and left as a personal decision.
FWIW, I was told by a classical conductor that if you must tap your toe do it inside your shoe so it’s not visible. For most other genres feeling and showing the beat demonstratively is ok and left as a personal decision.
I will probably be run out of town... but Yousician gives excellent feedback on timing.
Noteflight also appears to have something similar
There’s also things like Rhythm Sight Reading Trainer for rhythm and timing training
Noteflight also appears to have something similar
There’s also things like Rhythm Sight Reading Trainer for rhythm and timing training
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when playing slow songs I've found note attack and sustain are two parts of technique that become really important to get right. A light attack/touch can help keep the bass from sounding clumsy, and it's important to be able to hold out notes for their whole value. If your shifts/transitions from note to note aren't clean, you will cut them short and it will ruin the flow and continuity of the line.
If you’re playing a pop song, you basically follow the chords. Playing a straight bass line
supporting the song is the way to go.
If you want to do something a little more synchopated, try playing behind the beat.
It’s called the ‘lazy’ bass. It gives the rhythm that ‘flat tire’ feel.
Good examples are George Porter jr. of the Meters, and Louis Risbrook jr. Of B.T. Express.
supporting the song is the way to go.
If you want to do something a little more synchopated, try playing behind the beat.
It’s called the ‘lazy’ bass. It gives the rhythm that ‘flat tire’ feel.
Good examples are George Porter jr. of the Meters, and Louis Risbrook jr. Of B.T. Express.
