I much prefer the way the highs are reproduced by a 12" driver... I've owned some of the 'sweetest' to 'brightest' tweeters and I have to say.... I will NEVER buy another cab with a tweeter. I have no use for them within my tone.
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anybody else hate tweeters?
- Thread starter jim primate
- Start date
Actually, I *think* you're supposed to disconnect the L-pad to avoid any problems...
- georgestrings
On the OT: I like a little tweeter - usually somewhere between 2 to 3 out of 10... just enough to brighten things up a bit, but not enough to sound harsh.... I also notice that I haven't blown one since using less of them...
- georgestrings
- georgestrings
Tweeters are fine when used properly. I usually leave mine at about 2-3 out of 10.
I briefly owned an Ampeg BA115 that had a horribly hissy tweeter. It was the kind of thing that I would have been embarrassed to have out in public. When you turned the amp on it would hiss horribly. I've played through a lot of other systems in my life an never experienced hiss like that before - so if someone only had experience with something like that, frustration would be understandable.
For a while I played live using only an amp and a Hartke 410XL (4 tens, no tweeter) and it sounded fine. Now I have an Avatar 2x12 with a horn tweeter. I keep it turned down pretty low - no hiss or extra "sizzle."
I briefly owned an Ampeg BA115 that had a horribly hissy tweeter. It was the kind of thing that I would have been embarrassed to have out in public. When you turned the amp on it would hiss horribly. I've played through a lot of other systems in my life an never experienced hiss like that before - so if someone only had experience with something like that, frustration would be understandable.
For a while I played live using only an amp and a Hartke 410XL (4 tens, no tweeter) and it sounded fine. Now I have an Avatar 2x12 with a horn tweeter. I keep it turned down pretty low - no hiss or extra "sizzle."
I generally keep mine completely off (or close to off) but I don't know if that's because of the tweeter/horn itself, or the fact that a lot of amps/preamps and basses are so bright to begin with.
Even with slapping, I prefer a slightly muted sound...though I really don't slap much.
Even with slapping, I prefer a slightly muted sound...though I really don't slap much.
When I posted "disconnect the entire circuit" I meant the L-pad too. Wire around the the L-pad, crossover and tweeter and go direct to the woofers.
I have no problems with tweeters, as long as there is a dedicated midrange driver to handle the critical information above the woofer. I use two-way cabinets that are woofer and midrange and three-way cabinets that are woofer, midrange and tweeter. I've never been in love with a cabinet having a woofer and a tweeter and nothing in between. It doesn't even make sense to me.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Yep. Thus my suggestion, which works especially nice for distortion/overdrive and tubes, gives a good sheen with or without a tweeter:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5158878&postcount=29
I'm not disagreeing with you, but James Jamerson also wasn't playing with a guitarist using a modern, high-gain rig like a Mesa Rectifier or a VHT, which sometimes requires a bass player to shine more in the 2k register. I also agree with KJ: Much love to Double J for what he's done, but that tone just isn't for me.
For me, horns add a presence in the upper-end that just can't be approximated with traditional drivers. I usually don't turn my horns up very high, because my bass instrinsically has a lot of natural highs in its timbre, but if they aren't on just a little bit, the sound to me isn't totally three dimensional. Just boosting those frequencies through the drivers doesn't sound the same. With that said, I think that I prefer coaxial drivers over horns, because they sound a little more round and natural to my ears.
It's cool if people dig horns or if they don't dig horns. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I suspect the reason why SOME people don't like horns is because of their unforgiving nature. Finger and fret noise, along with bad technique, are just amplified 10x by a horn.
I'm not the biggest tweeter fan. I play mostly fretless and upright and I don't really hear a place for a tweeter in my sound. I like to keep things simple, and tweeter adds unnecesary scratchiness. However, I think if a tweeter is utilized properly, it can be benficial in certain situations.
I can't stand tweeters, personally. I have no use for them whatsoever. Those of you out there who like them probably play a style of music where that sound is appropriate, but as for myself, I would prefer it if the manufacturers would save me the extra cost and weight and just leave the damn things out.
Of course, I somehow ended up with a Trace Elliot 1248H that has no attenuator for the tweeter, but it still sounds great because those 800W worth of 4x12's completely overshadow the fact that there's a tweeter stuck in the middle of them. Someday, I'll probably cut the tweeter out of the circuit altogether just on principle.
I'd really like to get two new 1x15's, but every one that I like has a tweeter. Yes, I can always turn it off, but I'd rather not pay for something that I'm never going to use and I'd rather not haul the weight of something I'm never going to use.
Of course, I somehow ended up with a Trace Elliot 1248H that has no attenuator for the tweeter, but it still sounds great because those 800W worth of 4x12's completely overshadow the fact that there's a tweeter stuck in the middle of them. Someday, I'll probably cut the tweeter out of the circuit altogether just on principle.
I'd really like to get two new 1x15's, but every one that I like has a tweeter. Yes, I can always turn it off, but I'd rather not pay for something that I'm never going to use and I'd rather not haul the weight of something I'm never going to use.
the main issue i have with them is i don't like any extras in my way.
i never use a tweeter, why have it there?
i never use a tweeter, why have it there?
The most common complaints on these tweets are their hissing noise. If they would really make this thing work right... they can. So where should we put the blame one? cab manufacturers or the amps? The reason I'm putting the amp in the mix is that... if tweeters work noiselessly on a PA or even the boombox you have lying around, why not on amp heads+cabs?
For what's it's worth (the heavy price tags on cabs and heads) why can't they make it work right???
For what's it's worth (the heavy price tags on cabs and heads) why can't they make it work right???
I think the people who hate tweeters just might not have "good" tweeters in their amps or cabinets. I used to hate them a lot until I got my Schroeder with the Titanium bullet tweeter. That is the most un harsh, un-clanky tweeter I have ever heard IMO. In fact I have it cranked to about 11 o 'clock on the attenuator and it still doesn't sound too harsh. I really like it a lot when I used to hate using them before.
I can understand wanting to reproduce the entire frequency range of your instrument but most of the horns are just flat out harsh sounding hiss or no hiss(usually not a problem unless the trebel is cranked) But why not ude high power domes paper or whatever they are they are not usually as harsh sounding as horns. I have an EBS 311 with a 15,10 and a horn very sweet sounding highs and great mids and no attenuator for the horn because you don't need it it all blends in fantastic. why can't more speaker makers do it like that so it is sweet and smooth?
The design you are talking about is used in the Acme cabs and also the Accugrooves. However, 'sweet and smooth' to some is 'dark, polite and treble shy' to many others.
The problem I found with both the Acme's I've owned, and the Accugrooves I've played and also heard live, is that the very subtle, warm, organic treble response delivered by those very small 'soft dome' type tweeters literally disappears in a mix the first time a drummer hits the ride cymbal IMO and IME.
IF you want some significant upper range/higher treble response to make it out to your audience using backline in a reasonable dense mix (i.e., funk/pop type playing), it's amazing how much volume a tweeter circuit needs to be able to project to result in an even, wide tone 20 feet out in a packed room (people tend to eat up higher frequency response just like carpet, etc.).
So, again, it's all about tone goal. The Accugroove/Acme top end sound very 'paper cone' natural... sounds like a nice top end of a full range driver. If that's the tone you like, these three way designs are very even, organic and smooth.
IMO!
Not true in all cases. I'm using a Berg mini stack, and still turn the tweeter off. Everyone raves about those tweeters and crossovers, but it just sounds like a tweeter to me (altough a very good one). That stack has tons of high end without the tweeter on.
It's personal preference of course. I'm sure someone could come out with speakers mounted in a shoe box, and it would soon have it's own megathread here with a loyal following.
