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Anyone else having a hard time with the tech involved with giving or taking lessons online?

K

Karl Kaminski

Supporting Member
Aug 26, 2008
2,790
3,167
NYC
#1
I posted over in the Recording Forum since my post was about the tech involved, but with no responses I figured I'd repost it here..

HI Everybody,
Like a lot of folks I've started 'Distance Learning' lessons this month and I thought I'd start a thread where we can offer tips, ask for help, etc.

I've offered distance lessons for a several years but now (in a pandemic) its become imperative. In the past I got by with FaceTime and Skype. But now Ive moved to Zoom which integrates scheduling, whiteboards, and the best feature—I can share(ie control) metronome, play along tracks etc from my iPhone/ipad as needed. Ultimately I'd like to move to Jamkazam but the main hurdle there is 'parent involvement and expense'. (Even a modest investment $30-50 can seem 'off-putting' considering our current situation) Ideally getting all the students a 'basic' audio interface would be a huge step forward in bass/guitar DL lesson feasibility but the goal here is to create an online lesson with minimal expenditure.

I'd like to get this started by offering some tips and then ask for some help...


In general I've found that the main hurdle is audio jitter (ie sound breaking up) The best way around that is for both parties to use an Ethernet connected computer and headphones. With WiFi being so prevalent and convenient, most won't have, want, or just can't use a wired connection so focus on the use of headphones. One aspect with tablet/cellphones I haven't experimented with yet is using cell data (mobile phone connection) vs wifi (home internet connection).

I dont think tablets and cellphone have any options to control settings, but a computer can be adjusted in the Sound Preferences. The *basic setup of both devices should be using built-in mic/built-in output (headphones). The *best option is using an audio interface for the instrument, a vocal (talking mic), and headphones. And in all cases if it can be avoided, NEVER use the headphone mic (the one built in to the earbuds)

Along with breakup of audio is the complication of low bass frequencies. Most acoustic guitar lesson can be adjusted with some or minimal sound issues, but Bass is difficult so the placement of the amp has been the target experimentation. This week im going to have all the students try cutting the bass EQ on the amp to '0' OFF. Hopefully this will act as a HPF and help the fidelity. Ill post the results.

Finally have an adjustable stand for the device (iPhone/ipad/PC/laptop) so taht it is secure and clearly shows the players instrument/hands. There have been quite a few 'drops' last week with parents tilting their iPad against something. (*Ironically its the parents who ignore the most basic requirements for a smooth lesson environment.)

There are many more 'little tweaks' I can offer but too many and varied to list here generally, Im happy to offer anything I've picked up in a direct response to a question.


Now, I need your thoughts/tips...

As stated above the main hurdle is audio quality (just being able to hear or play with each other online). Does anyone have any tip/help for setting up apple's audio midi setup? I want to create an aggregate device between my audio interface/built-in mic/and Zoom.us audio driver. Basically I want the functionality of JamKazam in the form of the Zoom app. The online help for Audio Midi Setup is basic at best, I guess im looking for a way to route audio signals together (at minimal expense) I know of Loopback (paid) and Soundflower (free?).




the Pros/Cons of the whole thing are:

Simple setup
Pros: is cheap, relatively easy
Cons: sound and lesson experience is crappy, ok at best.

More involved setup
Pros: better lesson experience
Cons: requires more gear, more involved setup, time intensive for parents
 
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#2
On Zoom you can disable the audio filtering and compression algorhythms that are optimized for voice. Then you should hear the full spectrum. Both student and teacher need to do this.

Before the lesson:
Start Zoom on your laptop
Goto "Home" button
Goto settings "gear" icon top right under your profile picture
Open audio settings
Goto "advanced" button at bottom right of audio settings screen
Check the box that says: "Show in meeting use original sound".
Close setup screens

At the lesson:
Start your zoom meeting
Join with audio, and turn on video
Now you should be looking at the main zoom video screen.
Hover up around the the upper left corner of this window and you'll see "Turn on original sound" or "Turn off oringinal sound" it's a two-state toggle button with a drop-down -- make sure you select the mic you want original sound.
It should remember this setting for the next time you join this same meeting.

Good luck
 
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#3
thanks I wondered about those algorithms. Im a bit confused as to the settings. which is the "original sound" with/or without the filters enabled? Then you can just toggle between the two in session (I get the toggle part)

im guessing original = settings unfiltered correct?

thanks ill give it a try!
 
#4
As to my testing tis week for electric bass students... lowering the bass eq on their amps helped a lot. Ideally it would also be great to turn off any auto gain feature on their mic as it compresses the signal down to almost nothing once they play on the E and A strings.
 
#6
How do you share a metronome in Zoom or a backing track?

My experience with teaching with all the online apps is that they all suck soundwise. They are not intended for music but for speech. You can make it better with having all kind of extra tools. Headphone, extra mic, direct connecting through Ethernet cable and so on. But that is a hassle and if the student doesn't have good gear or connection you can have all the tools you want and it still sounds bad.
 
#7
stefaniw80401 said:
On Zoom you can disable the audio filtering and compression algorhythms that are optimized for voice. Then you should hear the full spectrum. Both student and teacher need to do this.

Before the lesson:
Start Zoom on your laptop
Goto "Home" button
Goto settings "gear" icon top right under your profile picture
Open audio settings
Goto "advanced" button at bottom right of audio settings screen
Check the box that says: "Show in meeting use original sound".
Close setup screens

At the lesson:
Start your zoom meeting
Join with audio, and turn on video
Now you should be looking at the main zoom video screen.
Hover up around the the upper left corner of this window and you'll see "Turn on original sound" or "Turn off oringinal sound" it's a two-state toggle button with a drop-down -- make sure you select the mic you want original sound.
It should remember this setting for the next time you join this same meeting.

Good luck
Click to expand...

Unfortunately these settings are not available on iPad or iPhone. Only on computer. Which is lame because many students use these devices.

Also I have tested these settings. It makes it a little bit better but not much.
 
#8
Les Fret said:
Unfortunately these settings are not available on iPad or iPhone. Only on computer. Which is lame because many students use these devices.

Also I have tested these settings. It makes it a little bit better but not much.
Click to expand...

yeah, most of young students are all using parent' iPad and iPhone (an iPhone is ridiculous for a lesson, but we'll work with what we got) Having those audio setting options on an iPad would be great (I'll check but I think those settings are in the iPad Setting/Zoom). In the meantime turning off any auto gain (in app or system) and lowering amp eq settings has helped.

For sharing apps in Zoom: I use my Mac for the session and share my metronome app from my iPhone (**Make sure you enable the "share audio" button at the bottom of the 'share screen' setup). I can control the settings, they listen and play to them. works great. Im not picky with sounds features just need the kids to play their scales to a fix rhythm.

As I mentioned, I've used Facetime/skype for years with limited results, for me Zoom is the only free app that has the features I need:
  • available on all platforms
  • easy of use for parents
  • students already familiar from school use
  • I can share audio from apps; to have some semblance of a regular lesson (I can't give a 7yr old kid control of the lesson ;) )
  • I can share a whiteboard or a screen from my desktop (for TAB or scales on a fretboard etc)
but im not shilling' for Zoom. Use what works for ya :)
 
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#9
Karl Kaminski said:
yeah, most of young students are all using parent' iPad and iPhone (an iPhone is ridiculous for a lesson, but we'll work with what we got) Having those audio setting options on an iPad would be great (I'll check but I think those settings are in the iPad Setting/Zoom). In the meantime turning off any auto gain (in app or system) and lowering amp eq settings has helped.

For sharing apps in Zoom: I use my Mac for the session and share my metronome app from my iPhone (**Make sure you enable the "share audio button at the button of the 'share setup screen'). I can control the settings, they listen and play to them. works great. Im not picky with sounds features just need the kids to play their scales to a fix rhythm.

As I mentioned, I've used Facetime/skype for years with limited results, for me Zoom is the only free app that has the features I need:
  • available on all platforms
  • easy of use for parents
  • students already familiar from school use
  • I can share audio from apps, to have so semblance of a regular lesson (I can't give a 7yr old kid control of the lesson ;) )
  • I can share a whiteboard or a screen from my desktop (for TAB or scales on a fretboard etc)
but im not shilling' for Zoom. Use what works for ya :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip on app sharing! I have checked again and those audio setting are not available for iPad or iPhone!

Do you have the Pro version of Zoom? The free version has a 40 minutes time limit for group meeting. It says on their website that limit is only for group meeting with 3 or more persons. But I also have that 40 minutes limit when I host one on one lessons. Is that also the case with you?
 
#11
I think using headphones and an actual microphone are the main keys to success.

My biggest issue as a learner tends to be that it is hard to talk at the same time as the instructor. In normal conversation there is a little voice overlap, but on the phone it is a one then the other. Same goes for playing while someone tells you what you are doing wrong. It feels very disjointed.
 
#12
yes, the key to success is the use of headphones (without a built-in mic) and the mic from your device or external mic.

It can help to turn off any 'auto gain' setting and/or Zoom 'audio filters' (but these must be thru trial and error—there's no 'silver-bullet' correct setup).
 
#13
After two months, here are some observations/tips Ive gleaned from the process...

<PS @stefaniw80401 tip on using 'original audio' setting in Zoom has been a great help! I wish I could give him positive TB feedback for that gem!!> :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Basically all the 'uni-directional' conferencing apps (Zoom/Facetime/Skype/Teams/etc) are the same for audio hurdles; they only allow audio to work in one direction—like a conversation; so two ppl playing together is difficult without some kind of adjustments. Ive been trying to get most of the more experienced players to move over to the JamKazam platform, it allows for a much more satisfying lesson (bi-directional audio platform, aka virtual studio). But overall, Zoom has been the best for me with features, familiarity and cost.

Here are some more tips for "UNI" apps from the weeks that followed:
  • get student onto a desktop/laptop instead of tablet/phone
  • set computer's audio settings to "built-in mic" & "built-in output/speaker/headphone"
  • USE HEADPHONES (wired, with an extension cable with enough to allow room for the instrument)
  • do NOT use headphones with a built-in mic, avoid noise cancelation
  • turn off as much 'wireless tech' as possible (WIFI/BLUETOOTH) Use wired connections when possible.
  • turn off auto compression/auto-gain vol controls
  • turn off Zoom's "advanced" audio settings (Use 'Original Sound' — THANKS @stefaniw80401 :thumbsup:)
  • turn off VPN
  • do not play loud/agressively
  • For amplified lessons, move the amp as close to the computer as possible and set the volume LOW (instead of filling the room with a loud amplified signal).
  • Adjust the EQ settings: For bass I found that setting the EQ at: Bass9/Mid12/Trb[off] helps, especially those young students that haven't developed a sense of touch yet and beat away on their strings (in which case running the Bass EQ [off] also helps.)

The main goal with all of these tips is to isolate the signal so that input/output dont override eachother. And secondarily, the computer apps and hardware (ie mics) aren't designed for audio, let alone the low-end demands of bass. Cutting the frequencies like a H/LPF really helps with the clarity. Using these tips I've been able to play duets with my students and accompany them in the lessons. Of course, getting them onto JamKazam is even better if they're setup for it; the sessions are like being in the room together without having all the 'audio hurdles'.

Hope these tips help.

<Hey, where are all the TB teachers and students at? I really thought this would be a hot topic considering>
 
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#14
Well, I hoped there would be more interest in this topic but nevertheless here are some final tips Ive used to end out the year.

Most of the following tips are repetitious but I found sending links to parents really got the issues fixed.


HI Guys,
Im sending around a help/tip sheet to everyone to try and improve our lesson quality;

1) Heres a link to the Zoom Knowledge base site with some instructions to help adjust the audio settings: Background noise suppression. Since we are playing music and both sending audio “at the same time” its best to select the LOW or OFF settings in “Noise Suppression”.

2) Another audio issue can come from the “original sound setting” Enabling option to preserve original sound. We want to use the original sound to avoid the ‘filtering’ Zoom uses for Voice Meetings. In some cases this maybe the OPPOSITE of the setting used for your school/office meetings.

3) Also these settings can be tweaked during the lesson:
  • make sure the "Automatically Adjust microphone volume" is NOT selected.
  • And the Gain is set between 80%-100%
  • Set Speaker and Mic to CORRECT settings
Screen Shot 2020-12-07 at 6.40.47 PM.png


4) Other than these 3 audio settings, the only other issue users have had is glitching in the meeting due to poor connection (wifi). These can be a simple as an iphone next to laptop, or other family members streaming during the lesson. ​


And finally Ive been shocked at the quality and reliability of the Apple AirPods and AirPods Pros. Eventhough these are wireless they have consistantly provided excellent connectivity and clarity in lessons.

Glad to see an end to 2020, Happy New Year TB!
 
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#15
There are a few hurdles to overcome but I've not spoken to any teacher on any instrument that hasn't encountered them. One of my friends is adamant the best mic for sax is his iphone and whatsapp, he's a studio owner as well so it just amuses that is the set up giving him the best sounds.

I'm using a Focusrite interface with one channel for bass and one channel for plugging an external mic in. It works for everything but Skype is a bit funny and only seems to recognise one channel so if anyone has solutions for that I'd be all ears.

Personally I find the lag can at times create a bit of silence between that talking and and response, nothing drastic but I often fear the student thinks I'm just sitting in silence and killing time but the reality is just the lag so that's more me than anything else. But I feel I'm managing well, my students seem happy and I'm always looking to recruit more as well.

I was fortunate that back in March when we first locked down I basically spent a week scanning resources and burning audio stuff so all my material is ready to share during the lesson so that initial week has saved me so much more time down the line. Although I occasionally need to scan some new things from time to time. My biggest gripe is wrestling with the scanner now!
 
#16
Hi
Thru in-app settings and physical setup, I been able to eliminate about 98% of my audio hurdles with students. The hardest part is to convincing parents that the 10minutes of 'trial and error' setup time is worth the effort for their child. *shrug*

yeah definitely having 'digital-ready' material is essential. Im constantly reminding/encouraging my parents/students to check their email each week. (I'll send my students sheetmusic and play-along tracks throughout the week, especially when we start a new song or topic)

Luckily I've been teaching 'outta-my-laptop-bag' for decades so most things are already on my laptop. This is the first time in years my printer has sat hibernating. Though, no need for ink refills. LOL

Having an onscreen/app whiteboard has been really helpful too.
 
#17
For one on one lessons, I have never had problems with plain ole Skype. Speaking of other platforms, there are ways to enable reasonably good backing for a person to play over (Ant wellington uses files prepared in advance and sends them to students through email or Skype messenger), but actual jamming...dunno.
Speaking of online instruction and its challenges, there is something I've been thinking about (see the link below for the elaboration) regarding certain level of...inertness among music instructors, when it comes to teaching during the pandemic circumstances. What are other folks' thoughts on this?
Based in Bass: Isolated bass...lost opportunity?
 
#18
hi
yes I also create play-alongs for students at their tempo. Having and providing digital content is imperative to a successful online lesson.

As far as playing along with the student, I've cleared that hurdle with the prescribed methods above. Pick your poison for apps, but for me, multifunction apps (Zoom/Teams/etc) offer the teacher more in ways of controlling and facilitating the lesson (shared screens/apps like metronomes/videos/etc). But FaceTime/skype still works if needed (you just have the 'uni-direction' audio issues to navigate).
 
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#20
[Obviously make sure they are up to date with zoom app. Latest update only a few weeks old]

But Yeah. iPad has this same GUI limitation, as well as Chromebook!

For the platforms without options check that the user is the admin (full access).

For limited platforms have them look for the “focus on voice” option to be OFF.
 

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