Anyone else tune their basses as I do?

[Kragnorak]

An E with a .80 on a 30" scale bass is nowhere near as ridiculously low tension as a 34" low A with a .100. Yes, that .80 E is going to have lower tension, but nowhere near the unplayable tension of the .100 low A. I tried it earlier today when he first mention it. It's unplayable.

No no no, you're not paying attention! Tobin Abasi is a guitarist, and his instrument is at a 27" scale. Every instrument is different, and so is every player. I know a luthier that has a customer that asks him to set up basses so low that a credit card at the 12th fret is a tight fit. To the luthier, this request seemed ridiculous because Science and because fret buzz. But this bassist had a touch and when he played it was like butter.

Assuming does not always make an ass out of both parties

 

[DigthemLows]

I have no interest in reinventing the wheel. In my 30+ years of playing (see, I can do that too), I have learned some simple truths; the first is that, in order to play well, you need to remove obstacles, not place them in front of you. I use every method at my disposal to improve every day, be it books, videos or yes, my college diploma.

If you want to struggle with absolute basics, such as scales and position playing, then go ahead and martyr yourself, but it seems like an odd thing to do.

again with making assumptions that other people might think the same as you. I don't sit at home and practice ever..........I don't have books, I don't use anything other than playing with other musicians, be it jams, band practice, or whatever else. None of those scenarios mean that I need to have some form of "standard" method to my approach, they only mean I need to play and stay in tune.........and as a bass player, hold down a groove. You are seriously just trolling your opinion and trying to make it fact.

 

[tfer]

again with making assumptions that other people might think the same as you. I don't sit at home and practice ever..........I don't have books, I don't use anything other than playing with other musicians, be it jams, band practice, or whatever else. None of those scenarios mean that I need to have some form of "standard" method to my approach, they only mean I need to play and stay in tune.........and as a bass player, hold down a groove. You are seriously just trolling your opinion and trying to make it fact.

You don't practice...? Seriously?

TTYL.

 

[Kragnorak]

It's not the notes that you tune to, but the interval. A note is nothing but a theoretical starting point, based on a frequency.

The interval is a mathematical constant. The interval is what matters; if you want to start at C#, then knock yourself out, but all modern instruction for both bass and double bass is based on a tuning interval of 4ths.

OK, but we play an electric bass guitar, right? The double bass is in a completely different family of instrument, the viol family. And to be technical, it's closer to the violin family than to the viols that died out. Even in that family, there's nothing traditional about the bass, because it should be tuned in 5ths like the rest of them.

So what about the guitar family? That's what our instruments really belong to. Guitars are more related to lutes (which faded away like the viols) and guitars and lutes both tend to have a major 3rd somewhere in their tuning. So why don't most bassists use 3rds once in a while? Because 4-string players tune like the bottom 4 strings of a guitar, right? So theoretically, 6-string bassists would be using a traditional tuning if they incorporate a major 3rd. I use one on my 7-string because I care about how notes sound and I don't see the point of having a high F string that has sympathetic vibration with exactly nothing. The physics of sound trumps my concerns about being able to use the same silly finger patterns all over the neck.

Does any of this make sense to you? I'm trying to explain my confusion that bass guitarists behave as if their instrument is in another family because "tradition". It strikes me as remnant of the days when bassists would feel sheepish about showing up to a gig with a slab.

 

[tfer]

OK, but we play an electric bass guitar, right? The double bass is in a completely different family of instrument, the viol family. And to be technical, it's closer to the violin family than to the viols that died out. Even in that family, there's nothing traditional about the bass, because it should be tuned in 5ths like the rest of them.

So what about the guitar family? That's what our instruments really belong to. Guitars are more related to lutes (which faded away like the viols) and guitars and lutes both tend to have a major 3rd somewhere in their tuning. So why don't most bassists use 3rds once in a while? Because 4-string players tune like the bottom 4 strings of a guitar, right? So theoretically, 6-string bassists would be using a traditional tuning if they incorporate a major 3rd. I use one on my 7-string because I care about how notes sound and I don't see the point of having a high F string that has sympathetic vibration with exactly nothing. The physics of sound trumps my concerns about being able to use the same silly finger patterns all over the neck.

Does any of this make sense to you? I'm trying to explain my confusion that bass guitarists behave as if their instrument is in another family because "tradition". It strikes me as remnant of the days when bassists would feel sheepish about showing up to a gig with a slab.

Fair enough.

Because of my background in double bass, I see the bass guitar as an outgrowth of that.

Solid explanation on your part, so I can sympathize with your position.

 

[Fat Steve]

OP, you should feel absolutely terrible about tuning in an unorthodox fashion. Can't you see it upsets people? Why can't you be more sympathetic to what anonymous internet strangers want you to do? Without the respect of strangers, how can you carry on in life? I mean, we've got one guy here who has taken a large part of his day to tell you how wrong you are, repeatedly, and yet you still wont budge. Please think of the internet strangers OP!

 

[tfer]

OP, you should feel absolutely terrible about tuning in an unorthodox fashion. Can't you see it upsets people? Why can't you be more sympathetic to what anonymous internet strangers want you to do? Without the respect of strangers, how can you carry on in life? I mean, we've got one guy here who has taken a large part of his day to tell you how wrong you are, repeatedly, and yet you still wont budge. Please think of the internet strangers OP!

LOL!

Just enjoying the debate! Nice break from real life!

Sorry for defending my position.

 

[Kragnorak]

LOL!

Just enjoying the debate! Nice break from real life!

Sorry for defending my position.

I've been having fun too. I'm looking forward to Mr. Soma's video. I've been considering using lighter strings lately because I enjoy crazy bends and vibrato. But I think you traditionalists are expecting it to sound like this video on cheesy speakers:

 

[tfer]

I've been having fun too. I'm looking forward to Mr. Soma's video. I've been considering using lighter strings lately because I enjoy crazy bends and vibrato. But I think you traditionalists are expecting it to sound like this video on cheesy speakers:

I'm interested in hearing it, but it's not something I'll try. As for being a traditionalist - I'd agree. I'm too damn old to change now!

 

[awilkie84]

No no no, you're not paying attention! Tobin Abasi is a guitarist, and his instrument is at a 27" scale. Every instrument is different, and so is every player. I know a luthier that has a customer that asks him to set up basses so low that a credit card at the 12th fret is a tight fit. To the luthier, this request seemed ridiculous because Science and because fret buzz. But this bassist had a touch and when he played it was like butter.

Assuming does not always make an ass out of both parties

I challenge you to go try his tuning with similar gauges. I did. It won't work. He even says he plays aggressively with a pick. Not a bloody chance will it work. When your string is loose at the nut & saddle, there's no way it will be tight & clear in response (regardless of what your touch is).

 

[Fat Steve]

LOL!

Just enjoying the debate! Nice break from real life!

Sorry for defending my position.

No worries. I find that when I'm having a terrible day at the office, a nice sarcastic post oozing with snark is just what the doctor ordered, as it helps keep me from losing it on my coworkers. I do enjoy the debate though. Thanks for playing along.

 

[Luke19Boarder]

No worries. I find that when I'm having a terrible day at the office, a nice sarcastic post oozing with snark is just what the doctor ordered, as it helps keep me from losing it on my coworkers. I do enjoy the debate though. Thanks for playing along.

It's been one of those days for you, too?

 

[tfer]

It's been one of those days for you, too?

We are debating music. How bad could it be?

 

[Happynoj]

I have no interest in reinventing the wheel.

I think this is where your issue lies. Alternate tunings are not reinventing the wheel - they are taking the wheel that we all know and love and adapting it for a different use. I think of it as being a bit like putting chunkier offroad tyres on you car so that you can take it to places you wouldn't have been able to get to otherwise. Non-standard intervals can make playing some music easier, or in some cases possible. Granted, it's probably not going to be music that makes the Top 40, but people are in to all sorts of stuff.

In my 30+ years of playing (see, I can do that too), I have learned some simple truths; the first is that, in order to play well, you need to remove obstacles, not place them in front of you.

Surely by ignoring alternate tunings you are creating obstacles? You might not have a use for them, but that doesn't mean that others don't.

If you want to struggle with absolute basics, such as scales and position playing, then go ahead and martyr yourself, but it seems like an odd thing to do. all modern instruction for both bass and double bass is based on a tuning interval of 4ths. But, I honestly don't care how difficult you want to make playing; that's up to you. All I'm saying is that if you have a sincere desire to get better, use the same system that nearly every other teacher and bassist, playing western music, uses.

If you can already play bass and aren't learning from instruction books are you allowed to try non-standard tunings?

 

[tfer]

I've been discussing this for hours, and I'm done.

If you want to see what I mean, tune up using one of these alternate tunings, and play any 2 octave scale using tetrachords and shifts. You'll see exactly what I mean about obstacles and reinventing the wheel.

 

[Happynoj]

I'm not using any crazy tunings at the moment, but my old band had a track where I tuned B Eb A D G. I needed the Eb but didn't want to change instruments for one song to get an open Eb. I just tuned the E down a half step and wrote the bassline around it. The only issues that it created were that the guitarists struggled to work out what I was doing because I looked like I was playing in a different key.

Placebo were a pretty big band who use some weird tunings. Brian Molko used guitars tuned C C Ab Eb B G, B B G D A D, F B G D A D, F# B G D A D. He didn't use them to be 'cool', he used them for the chords shapes and pedal notes that became available in these tunings, that you cannot get in regular tuning.

 

[Happynoj]

I've been discussing this for hours, and I'm done.

If you want to see what I mean, tune up using one of these alternate tunings, and play any 2 octave scale using tetrachords and shifts. You'll see exactly what I mean about obstacles and reinventing the wheel.

But what if you don't need to play scales? I can't think of many pieces of music that contain a 2 octave scale.

 

[obimark]

America today- "look at me, I'm different for the sake of being different!--
I'm a unique, special flower with tats and piercings, just like everyone else who is unique"
"I play a bass that I tune so low, it makes people crap their pants, in a grind/groundcore, jahpocalypse metal band. We tune to low G two octaves below a standard low g, but I tune my E string up half a step to F- Just because"
Yawn. Get off my lawn! ;-)

 

[tfer]

But what if you don't need to play scales? I can't think of many pieces of music that contain a 2 octave scale.

Western music is based on scales. Every musician should know at least the basic diatonic scales.


2 octave scales and tetrachords simply ingrain the fingerboard onto your mind. Having the freedom to play all over the fingerboard allows you the ability to play anything you hear in your head. Tetrachord combinations teach a player the fingerboard horizontally, rather than simply vertically, and are based on a tuning of 4ths. The shifts are out of reach when you tune in 5ths.

 

[Kamatori]

I down tune a whole step on all strings for that fat low D on my pbass with chromes. I found the tension to be just right between the pickup and the bridge.