Anyone else tune their basses as I do?

[Kragnorak]

When I had my private lesson with Michael Manring, and we worked on a 17th century J.S. Bach composition in non-standard tuning, does that count as a "traditional" or "non-traditional" way of playing the bass? Genuinely curious.

note: The altered tuning is totally justified in this case because it allows you to play certain chords that would otherwise be difficult to finger.

What tuning? (great question)

 

[tfer]

Okay - you mentioned 2 players. Should I start with my list of players that use standard?

 

[Mushroo]

I love how people are talking about "hundreds of years of musical tradition" in regards to an instrument that was invented in the 1950s.

It is absolutely 100% possible to downtune an E string to low A. I have studio recordings to prove it. I also frequently downtune standard gauge EADG strings to BEAD. I don't know why people find this so hard to believe.

Michael Manring uses a .052 low E string on his Hyperbass. I've played it.

 

[Kragnorak]

But that serves no practical purpose unless you're playing chords or you tune in such a way to increase the range of the instrument.

Translation: "that serves no practical purpose unless it is serving a practical purpose."

Why does everyone ignore tone quality, harmonic overtones, etc. in these discussions? Open strings sound good, pulling off to open strings sounds good, certain natural harmonics sound great when played at the same time as notes on the lowest string, etc. Depending upon the piece of music, it can be very advantageous to tune in order to take advantage of your bass's best qualities.

 

[Mushroo]

Okay - you mentioned 2 players. Should I start with my list of players that use standard?

You tried that line of reasoning (but failed) in a previous post. All three of the electric players you mentioned (Sheehan, Lee, and Wooten) have recorded music in non-standard tunings. Billy Sheehan even has a hipshot detuner on his signature model bass to facilitate alternate tunings!!!

 

[tfer]

You tried that line of reasoning (but failed) in a previous post. All three of the electric players you mentioned (Sheehan, Lee, and Wooten) have recorded music in non-standard tunings. Billy Sheehan even has a hipshot detuner on his signature model bass to facilitate alternate tunings!!!

Drop D and tuned in 5ths are standardized.

Check my belief in post #9.

 

[Mushroo]

What tuning? (great question)

When I am playing the Bach Cello Suites, I will either tune a 4-string CGDA and use a capo, or if I want to play them down an octave in bass range rather than cello, I will tune a 5 string CEADG.

By the way my low C string for CGDA is a .086 T-I acousticore.

 

[Kragnorak]

You can't defy physics, man. If you've managed to get enough tension for a low A on a .100, that's awesome (I don't believe you, but that doesn't mean you're wrong). I'm simply telling you that when I tried earlier today to tune my .105 to a low A, it wasn't even seating in the saddle or nut anymore. There was literally not enough tension to hold the string in place.

Out of curiosity, why do you not believe him when guys like Tobin Abasi tune their guitars to E1 with an .80 gauge string on a short scale?

 

[telefunkinu-47]

Hey man, tune it how ever you want. Don't let Old Man Deadwood bring you down. Be creative.

 

[GregC]

Hey man, tune it how ever you want. Don't let Old Man Deadwood bring you down. Be creative.

B-b-b-but tradition! You must not deviate!

 

[DigthemLows]

I'll never understand the people who dramatically alter traditional turnings. Occasional drop-D is sometimes necessary, but altering it like this just makes life difficult.

Every instructional book or video; any college music program, etc is going to push against you. You are forced to reinvent the wheel every time that you pick up the instrument.

The instrument was designed to accept certain string tensions across the fingerboard and body to operate at it's peak.

I could possibly understand tuning in 5ths because there are converted cello players who may have years of training in that discipline.

some of us don't buy or care to use instructional books, and I have zero desire to take a college music program.

At some point, most players hit a wall, and improvement stops. That's when learning by yourself ends, and lessons begin. It might only take a handful to put you on the right track again, and you back to off and running.

The first thing any reputable teacher is going to do in this case, is force the OP back into traditional tunings. Basically, the OP will have to relearn how to play the instrument; properly this time.

Again, after playing for 25+ years I have ZERO interest in taking lessons ........I like playing in bands and am pushed by the musicians I play with.

Pointing out facts isn't trolling.

What you are stating as facts are your opinions of the interpretation of those facts.......... Saying that all the "GREATS" used standard is saying that who you define is great uses standard........and stating that someone is great because they were popular is REALLY far off from a fact about the ability to play in instrument.......... you are a very good troll!!

 

[awilkie84]

Out of curiosity, why do you not believe him when guys like Tobin Abasi tune their guitars to E1 with an .80 gauge string on a short scale?

An E with a .80 on a 30" scale bass is nowhere near as ridiculously low tension as a 34" low A with a .100. Yes, that .80 E is going to have lower tension, but nowhere near the unplayable tension of the .100 low A. I tried it earlier today when he first mention it. It's unplayable.

 

[Kragnorak]

It's not an exaggeration. Lesson #1: know what the notes are. Going from 'Look At Me' turnings back into standard, you need to relearn the entire neck. So yes, you are starting over.

As for the greats; if alternate tuning were necessary, don't you think that they would have been using it? Drop D has become standardized because it made sense to extend the range of the instrument. Tuning in 5ths has transferred from classical training on other stringed instruments.

Prove the musical value of 5th-4th-5th tuning. You can't because it's only for attention seekers.

Your premise that there are "look at me" tunings is false. Audience members could not care less how an instrument is tuned. There's only two things could possibly be a "look at me" tuning, any instrument that has more than one neck or more than 12 strings, and this guitarist I saw play a rockabilly solo that could play bass lines by turning the tuning pegs accurately and in tune.

 

[Ewo]

When I become King, if I catch you using non standard tuning, I will take you to the gallows and string you up!

Aha! The lost verse in this tune, I bet...

 

[Luke19Boarder]

Okay - you mentioned 2 players. Should I start with my list of players that use standard?

Just because more famous people play in standard doesn't mean that it is better for every player in every situation. We know the majority of great players use standard tuning. THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED STANDARD. The point we are trying to make (or, at least I am) is that alternate tuning can be useful for some people in some situations. That's it. If it works for someone, why would you question that? Alternate tuning clearly isn't for you - so stick to standard, like most people. Just don't disparage those who have a different view of the instrument/music/creative process.

 

[tfer]

some of us don't buy or care to use instructional books, and I have zero desire to take a college music program.



Again, after playing for 25+ years I have ZERO interest in taking lessons ........I like playing in bands and am pushed by the musicians I play with.



What you are stating as facts are your opinions of the interpretation of those facts.......... Saying that all the "GREATS" used standard is saying that who you define is great uses standard........and stating that someone is great because they were popular is REALLY far off from a fact about the ability to play in instrument.......... you are a very good troll!!

I have no interest in reinventing the wheel. In my 30+ years of playing (see, I can do that too), I have learned some simple truths; the first is that, in order to play well, you need to remove obstacles, not place them in front of you. I use every method at my disposal to improve every day, be it books, videos or yes, my college diploma.

If you want to struggle with absolute basics, such as scales and position playing, then go ahead and martyr yourself, but it seems like an odd thing to do.

 

[Kragnorak]

Invalid Link Removed



Correction: Hundreds of years of ONE tradition.

http://www.atlasofpluckedinstruments.com/

Correction: There ARE no hundreds of years of bass guitar tradition! There's no such thing. And if you're including double bass then why wouldn't tfer go back to the 3-string tuning of greats like Bottesini or solo bass tuning a full step up?

 

[Kragnorak]

When I am playing the Bach Cello Suites, I will either tune a 4-string CGDA and use a capo, or if I want to play them down an octave in bass range rather than cello, I will tune a 5 string CEADG.

By the way my low C string for CGDA is a .086 T-I acousticore.

LOL, you must be musically illiterate if you're using a capo - I bet tfer could name 70 great bassists that have never used one!

 

[tfer]

Correction: There ARE no hundreds of years of bass guitar tradition! There's no such thing. And if you're including double bass then why wouldn't tfer go back to the 3-string tuning of greats like Bottesini or solo bass tuning a full step up?

It's not the notes that you tune to, but the interval. A note is nothing but a theoretical starting point, based on a frequency.

The interval is a mathematical constant. The interval is what matters; if you want to start at C#, then knock yourself out, but all modern instruction for both bass and double bass is based on a tuning interval of 4ths.

But, I honestly don't care how difficult you want to make playing; that's up to you. All I'm saying is that if you have a sincere desire to get better, use the same system that nearly every other teacher and bassist, playing western music, uses.

 

[tfer]

LOL, you must be musically illiterate if you're using a capo - I bet tfer could name 70 great bassists that have never used one!

Yep. I could!