Anyone Else Turn Off Low-Mids?

[brianrost]

It’s personal taste how much low mids are needed in different situations, but the usual “deep”, “ultra-lo”, “aural enhancement”, “contour”, etc. switches and knobs found on bass amps cut low mids, usually somewhere between 200–500Hz. A lot of amps with a single midrange control are voiced to control that same spectrum of frequencies. Then when the overall volume is increased, there is more bass, high mids and treble relative to the low mids. I think of it as “pillowy”, a real thick low end but no mud. So whether you like that kind of tone or not, obviously a lot of other people do.

 

[micguy]

The Rumble low mids are +/-12dB at 280Hz, but it's flat at 10o'clock.[/QUOTE

Rumble V3 Lo mid flat are around 1.30-2.00 o'clock.

Rumble V3's have more going on that meets the eye EQ wise. The controls on the front panel are part of an active eq circuit - that part of the overall circuit can be set relatively flat, but (and it's a big but) there is also a passive tone stack elsewhere in the circuit (without controls) - the eq of a "traditiional" Fender 3 band eq is baked into the circuit - that's your starting point. So, with the controls of the active EQ section set for "flat", the amp is not flat - it is distinctly mid scooped. I've gone trying to get the thing to be flat, and you can come close, but the active eq controls are in different places (frequency wise) than where the baked in eq is, so you can't actually get to perfectly flat - you can only get close.

 

[Pluckoff]

I should have added that I keep the contour and bright buttons depressed/activated at all times. The tone controls as follows.
Bass 50%
Low mid 0%
High mid 60%
Treble 50%

 

[Yahboy]

I should have added that I keep the contour and bright buttons depressed/activated at all times. The tone controls as follows.
Bass 50%
Low mid 0%
High mid 60%
Treble 50%

Do you means
Bass. at 12 o'clock
Lo mid at 7 o clock
Hi mid 1 o'clock
Treble at 12 o clock ?

If yes, with scoop EQ Contour engage, your entire bass tone are Scoopy Doo !

 

[Yahboy]

Rumble V3's have more going on that meets the eye EQ wise. The controls on the front panel are part of an active eq circuit - that part of the overall circuit can be set relatively flat, but (and it's a big but) there is also a passive tone stack elsewhere in the circuit (without controls) - the eq of a "traditiional" Fender 3 band eq is baked into the circuit - that's your starting point. So, with the controls of the active EQ section set for "flat", the amp is not flat - it is distinctly mid scooped. I've gone trying to get the thing to be flat, and you can come close, but the active eq controls are in different places (frequency wise) than where the baked in eq is, so you can't actually get to perfectly flat - you can only get close.

There are flat EQ graph share on rumble club after those EQ knobs tweak.

 

[Pluckoff]

Do you means
Bass. at 12 o'clock
Lo mid at 7 o clock
Hi mid 1 o'clock
Treble at 12 o clock ?

If yes, with scoop EQ Contour engage, your entire bass tone are Scoopy Doo !

Correct for the clock reference positions. Also, yes to scooped tone.

 

[micguy]

There are flat EQ graph share on rumble club after those EQ knobs tweak.

Unless the circuit has changed, as I said, you can get close, but not quite flat. I’ve done the measurements (and circuit simulations); so I know where in the circuit things are happening.

 

[retslock]

On the Fender Rumble 500 I use at practice, I typically bring down the low mids a good bit. It's just so muddy. Running from the line out, it sounds fine. For me, I prefer a boost in the 500 700 hz range for clarity.

This is interesting. My Rumble 500 head is not at all muddy running through my 2 x 12” 4 ohm cabinet. I have on occasion, even boosted the low mids just slightly but usually that knob stays flat and it sounds clean and punchy. Perhaps your practice room is resonant in that frequency range?

 

[Yahboy]

Unless the circuit has changed, as I said, you can get close, but not quite flat. I’ve done the measurements (and circuit simulations); so I know where in the circuit things are happening.

https://www.talkbass.com/wiki/fende...500-quot-flat-quot-all-12-o-clock-frequencies

Did you measure similar result ?

 

[Groove Doctor]

Thanks for the tip. Maybe that’s why I don’t like Rumble combos….

A lot more people turn down low mids, but think they don't - A lot of tone stacks (Fenders are notorious for this) scoop low mids a LOT when all the knobs are at noon. If you want "flat response" out of a Fender 3 band tone stack (there are slight variations, but they have similar characteristics) the mids need to be at 10, the treble on zero, and the bass just a bit above zero - that is the knob settings for flat. You can't actually boost mids on most Fender tone stacks, no matter what the knobs say.

Oh, and a jazz bass with both pickups dimed? That is mid scooped before the signal hits the amp - the pickup locations make that happen (though the dip is actually at a different frequency on every string).

A Stingray? Yeah, with the tone controls at center positions, there is a lot of mid scoop in that circuit.

Most bass rigs are, whether you realize it or not, scooped in the low mids. When folks here give you advice to "boost" mids to be heard, what they are really saying (though, again they don't know this) is "your rig has a lot of mid scoop, dial some of that back so you can be heard".

Spot on!!

 

[N Scott Shaw]

This is interesting. My Rumble 500 head is not at all muddy running through my 2 x 12” 4 ohm cabinet. I have on occasion, even boosted the low mids just slightly but usually that knob stays flat and it sounds clean and punchy. Perhaps your practice room is resonant in that frequency range?

The one I'm talking about is a combo. Maybe it's the speakers or the cab design. It sounds fine through the DI.

 

[micguy]

https://www.talkbass.com/wiki/fende...500-quot-flat-quot-all-12-o-clock-frequencies

Did you measure similar result ?

It's been a while since I did the measurements and simulations, but yes, I got a non-flat response like that (I did say close, but not flat) - maybe with a bit more ripple. I remember it being a couple of dB, but it has been a while.

 

[-Stingray]

Cutting out the low mids has been my tone 'secret' for years. Around 300-400hz is the sweet spot I find. I also like to boost the high mids sometimes aggressively which really gives you a snarling tone that cuts through the heaviest of mixes.

For me I found the low mids just make everything too muddy and boomy. I want a deep low end fundamental and clarity in the high mids. It allows lots of sonic space for the low end of guitars to sit and I can cut through in the space before the high end from cymbals and guitars.

It has worked for me for years, playing small rooms, big rooms, in the studio etc. Sound guys have always complimented my tone and the overall band mix. It's all about finding the sweet spots and balancing your cut/boost with the low and high mids.

This 1000%. I hear continually not to cut mids because that's how "bass is heard". I've never found that works very well in a live rock/metal setting. A slight scoop in the mids (with a slight bump in the high mids at times) seems to really help clean up my sound while retaining the lows. Plus, in a rock setting as the bassist I'm not trying to "be heard". I'm trying to sit nicely in the mix in a supportive role, bringing warmth without overwhelming the stage/venue with volume.

I've done this for as long as I can remember, and have had nothing but compliments from the audience and soundmen. Recordings of our gigs sound great too.

 

[retslock]

The one I'm talking about is a combo. Maybe it's the speakers or the cab design. It sounds fine through the DI.

Ok that’s a different story and I should have guessed. The first Rumble I owned was a combo and it was muddy. It was the all black 350 watt version and not what I had hoped for. I sold it and now have just the head which I love.

 

[-Stingray]

I should have added that I keep the contour and bright buttons depressed/activated at all times. The tone controls as follows.
Bass 50%
Low mid 0%
High mid 60%
Treble 50%

Wow....you got some serious scooping going on. I'm guessing that it works great for slap though.

Probably would not work very well in a band situation.

 

[iagtrplyr]

Rumble V3's have more going on that meets the eye EQ wise. The controls on the front panel are part of an active eq circuit - that part of the overall circuit can be set relatively flat, but (and it's a big but) there is also a passive tone stack elsewhere in the circuit (without controls) - the eq of a "traditiional" Fender 3 band eq is baked into the circuit - that's your starting point. So, with the controls of the active EQ section set for "flat", the amp is not flat - it is distinctly mid scooped. I've gone trying to get the thing to be flat, and you can come close, but the active eq controls are in different places (frequency wise) than where the baked in eq is, so you can't actually get to perfectly flat - you can only get close.

You, my bass brotha, have made it clear why I have had this love/hate relationship with Rumbles for as long as V3s have been sold. They’ve always been too muddy-sounding for my ears and I couldn’t understand why I couldn’t easily dial it out with the four-band EQ. My settings were not only extreme, but I still didn’t think it sounded as I wanted it to. Thanks for your explanation!

 

[pepj]

I point everything at 12 with volume to suit.
The active basses are pretty much set to run with that eq.
I'm running front or back or both.
I'm working on these onboard bass set ups all the time.
I might knock the tone knobs up to 1o clock or down to 11. Then I might reset the bass onboard EQ.
I'm running Jazz basses always and then I work out how the get my style working within that.

The only sound that I might gravitate to but can't get near is Smith Soapbars.

 

[micguy]

I'm running Jazz basses always and then I work out how the get my style working within that.

The only sound that I might gravitate to but can't get near is Smith Soapbars.

A pickup that listens to the string at one point gives you a very different eq than one that listens at two. And you can't eq one to sound like the other, as the eq is different on every string - it's a wavelength filter, and you can't compensate in electronics, unless each string has its own set of pickups and eq. Even then, it'd be a very complicated eq - to approximate it, you'd probably need a dsp per string.

 

[Jeff Scott]

A pickup that listens to the string at one point gives you a very different eq than one that listens at two. And you can't eq one to sound like the other, as the eq is different on every string - it's a wavelength filter, and you can't compensate in electronics, unless each string has its own set of pickups and eq. Even then, it'd be a very complicated eq - to approximate it, you'd probably need a dsp per string.

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