Anyone Ever Thought of This?

[MrBassman17]

Playing an outside gig this afternoon, so I'm bringing both my Ampeg PF 115 HE cab's. Normally I stack them with the road case for the head, etc. on top. However, it occurred to me that I could split the location of the cabs just by using a longer cable! I'm thinking one cab on either side of the drummer, so the guitar players can hear me better, and perhaps add some more depth of field to my sound.

Any thoughts?

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Search "comb filtering" on here - you increase greatly the odds that parts of the audience hear little if anything...

 

[Bass_Pounder]

A great way to make sure there are areas of booming bass, and other areas with NO bass in the audience.

 

[MrBassman17]

Wow, I never thought of that! I guess I'll stick with the vertical stack! Thanks for the quick advice!

 

[wmhill]

Despite what you've read so far- the band will hear you better. You don't put both PA speakers on one side do you ? Can you hear the PA speakers when they are separated?

 

[Joe Nerve]

The solution is to get a stack on both sides.



And one behind the drummer.

You're all welcome.

 

[Rick James]

The problem is the mids and highs, which are directional. Aim the bottom cab at the drummer so he can hear the mids and highs. Aim the top cab out so you and the audience can hear the mids and highs. The lows won't be affected at all, because they radiate from both cabs in an omni-directional pattern.

Despite what you've read so far- the band will hear you better. You don't both PA speakers on one side do you ? Can you hear the PA speakers when they are separated?

The other posters were right. Read this:
Invalid Link Removed

It's OK to have PA tops split left/right, because they don't handle the lows. PA subs shouldn't be split left/right, nor should bass cabs. You see PA subs split left/right all the time, but that's not because they should be, it's because whoever set them up doesn't know any better.

 

[MrBassman17]

The problem is the mids and highs, which are directional. Aim the bottom cab at the drummer so he can hear the mids and highs. Aim the top cab out so you and the audience can hear the mids and highs. The lows won't be affected at all, because they radiate from both cabs in an omni-directional pattern.
The other posters were right. Read this:
Invalid Link Removed

It's OK to have PA tops split left/right, because they don't handle the lows. PA subs shouldn't be split left/right, nor should bass cabs. You see PA subs split left/right all the time, but that's not because they should be, it's because whoever set them up doesn't know any better.

I've seen this done before, and I may try that before splitting the stack.

 

[wmhill]

The problem is the mids and highs, which are directional. Aim the bottom cab at the drummer so he can hear the mids and highs. Aim the top cab out so you and the audience can hear the mids and highs. The lows won't be affected at all, because they radiate from both cabs in an omni-directional pattern.
The other posters were right. Read this:
Invalid Link Removed

It's OK to have PA tops split left/right, because they don't handle the lows. PA subs shouldn't be split left/right, nor should bass cabs. You see PA subs split left/right all the time, but that's not because they should be, it's because whoever set them up doesn't know any better.

then I guess most every sound-mam/ companies "don't know better", because subs on both sides is and has been pretty standard. Even the manufactures must be oblivious to this, as most every sub comes with the adapter for a pole to place the top boxes on.

 

[trevcda]

It's OK to have PA tops split left/right, because they don't handle the lows. PA subs shouldn't be split left/right, nor should bass cabs. You see PA subs split left/right all the time, but that's not because they should be, it's because whoever set them up doesn't know any better.

Often PA subs are split because a)there is adequate low end available to allow it (enough rig for the gig), b) a power alley is neither desirable nor wanted and/or better low end coverage of the audience is, and c) most common, they are needed to raise mid/high packs up high enough to cover the audience.

 

[trevcda]

Oh and to the OP- in addition to possibility of cancellation effects, you would also lose the coupling of the two cabinets. Most likely resulting in decreased overall volume of your bass system, but also requiring you to push them both harder to make it up. Outside especially, where you may be asking a lot of them already, might be excessive.

 

[bassfran]

I've done this before on outdoor stages w/good P.A. support and the guitar player on the other side of the riser said he liked hearing me for a change. (He was also a sound engineer/record producer.) IIRC, bass was unnecessary in the wedges.

Rig at the time was an SVT2Pro into (2) Acme 2-10 cabs.

 

[Spirit of Ox]

I tried this quite a few years ago and was completely disappointed. I was hoping for a depth of sound to be increased and the results were quite the opposite. You will lose the coupling of your cabs working together.

 

[Rick James]

then I guess most every sound-mam/ companies "don't know better", because subs on both sides is and has been pretty standard.

That's true. I'd say that 99% of PA operators set up their gear based solely on how they've seen others do it, and they just keep repeating the same errors.

Even the manufactures must be oblivious to this, as most every sub comes with the adapter for a pole to place the top boxes on.

They may or may not be oblivious to the laws of acoustics, but for sure they're not oblivious to the laws of marketing, which include 'give the customer what he wants, whether it's right or not'. Faced with the prospect of losing a sale to a buyer who knows nothing about acoustics and wants a pole mount what manufacturer is going to leave the socket off and instead teach the customer why subs not only shouldn't be split, but they shouldn't even share the same footprint as mains?

IIRC, bass was unnecessary in the wedges.

Low frequencies are seldom needed from the wedges, because you'll hear them from the backline, and coming back from the PA subs too. But directional mids and highs can only be heard if you're in front of the bass cabs, or in front of the PA, so it's usually a good idea to put the bass in the monitors but high pass it at 100-125 hz or so.

 

[wmhill]

That's true. I'd say that 99% of PA operators set up their gear based solely on how they've seen others do it, and they just keep repeating the same errors

Wow- that's a pretty bold statement! I'd guess that includes the manufactures too?

 

[ashtray]

I've done the "split up the cabs" thing with a 50' speaker cable, in order for the band to hear me better. That said, as above, I wouldn't do it if your cabs are your sound source to the audience. I only ran "split sound" a few times. After that I pretty much set up on stage strategically - having my cab as far back as the drummer sits and angled toward the center of the stage. The drummer heard me great, and the main guitarist stood on the "bass side" of the stage. Other guitarist didn't care much but could still hear me, and the singer heard me well.

Having a taller stack helped on stage a lot more than two cabs firing at people's knees too.

 

[BassmanPaul]

I run a pair of Acme 2x10s. At one time I would place one on each side of the stage. My guitar player, who also used two cabs, would place one of his atop each of mine. From the stage it sounded huge. When I wandered around the room, using my wireless, the sound blasted in some areas and was very quiet in others. Next gig I put both my cabinets in a vertical stack and was blown away at the difference. I’ve never gone back.

 

[Wasnex]

It's OK to have PA tops split left/right, because they don't handle the lows. PA subs shouldn't be split left/right, nor should bass cabs. You see PA subs split left/right all the time, but that's not because they should be, it's because whoever set them up doesn't know any better.

To be fair, center packing subs has it's own set of problems. In some settings center pack provides superior results, in other settings stereo left right provides superior results. A knowledgeable audio tech will be aware of the problems and advantages that are incurred with different speaker setups and choose a solution that makes the best compromise.

IMHO, the reason subs are most typically setup left to right is that center packing is simply not viable. For example, when setup on the floor or low risers in a small club, it's not really a good choice to place a row of subs across the front of the band midway between the mid-hi packs. A similar problem occurs in many auditoriums in that, the first row of the audience is setup right on the lip of the stage.

Regarding splitting the bass cabs. This can help members on the far side of the band hear you better, but it will typically degrade the sound for the audience unless the PA is totally carrying front of house. If your bands' PA is large enough to carry the house over your rig, there will usually be monitors available, so splitting the bass cabs would not serve much of a purpose anyway, unless you just think it looks cool.

 

[JACink]

It's OK to have PA tops split left/right, because they don't handle the lows. PA subs shouldn't be split left/right, nor should bass cabs. You see PA subs split left/right all the time, but that's not because they should be, it's because whoever set them up doesn't know any better.

That's true. I'd say that 99% of PA operators set up their gear based solely on how they've seen others do it, and they just keep repeating the same errors.

???

With the proper knowledge and the correct equipment, the above statements are... well... incorrect.

 

[Downunderwonder]

then I guess most every sound-mam/ companies "don't know better", because subs on both sides is and has been pretty standard. Even the manufactures must be oblivious to this, as most every sub comes with the adapter for a pole to place the top boxes on.
View attachment 856337

their customers don't know any better. Subs without pole holes sell poorly. The manufacturers don't want to educate, they want to sell stuff. Do you know what a power alley is yet?