• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Anyone here a good guitarist?

s.m.80808 said:
E-----9----
B-----9----
G-----9----
D-----7----
A-----7----
E-----5----

AMaj7? Like that?(I think that is how you write it in tabs...)

Why not just play?

E-----9----
B-----9----
G-----9----
D-----7----
A-----0----
E-----(0) or <12>(harmonic) if you really want another E in the chord)

Then he would only have to use two fingers

He could even play

E-----12-----9------
B-----9------9----14
G-----9------9----13
D-----7------7----14
A-----0------7-----0
E-----0------9----12
Yeah but if I wanted just an Amaj7, I could use :
E---0 (E)
B---2 (C#)
G---0 (G)
D---2 (E)
A---0 (A)
E---0 (E)

I liked the chord I used for the sound, the timbre of the chord. It's just hard for smaller hands. And most humans have smaller hands than me.

My wife says I have orangutan hands.
 
First off, I learned guitar when I was 9 and moved over to bass at 11. I've also played trombone and tuba in the school bands/orchestra, some percussion, and lately picked up mandolin and am strengthening my keyboard technique. On guitar I'm not a shredder, I prefer the bluesy style Bard2dbone brings up: lots of bends and slides and stuff. My primary instrument is electric bass guitar.

"Play guitar on bass" means playing the exact same guitar riffs and whatnot when playing bass. (The bass line doesn't always follow the guitar; doing this just shows that the guitarist has never listened to the bass line.) Also, maintaining the "mentality" of a guitarist. By that I mean not observing the typical roles of the instruments in a given song, i.e., trying to play the solo on "Freebird" instead of laying down a groove. At its worst, having no concern for the sound of the group and stomping leads over others indiscriminantly and inappropriately for the given song.

Bassists being clueless about guitar? Sure, the major 3rd interval between the G and B strings kind of messes things up for someone who's used to having everything in 4ths. (Same thing happens when bassist/guitarist picks up violin/mandolin and has to deal with 5ths.) Also, a bassist with absolutely no guitar experience wouldn't know the chord shapes nor have developed the skill of playing them effortlessly. (OTOH, guitarists always seem to want to try full barre chords on bass which is never pleasant either.)

There's also the same problem with instrument roles. In classic rock, for example, the bass may be playing something as simple as quarter notes on an open string while the guitar is off soloing. So first the bassist has to learn the guitar solo and then has to learn any techniques associated with it. It's a fairly steep learning curve compared to the guitarist who just has to switch over to playing quarters on bass.

Alexander and s.m.80808 bring up a good point that learning multiple instruments can give you a better overall point of view on how the different parts fit together in ensemble playing. Even if you just listen to the guitar or keys or drums or vocals all the way through a tune as intently as you do the bass when trying to cop the bass line you should get a better feel for how things fit together. At a jazz clinic I heard the drummer remark how he learned phrasing from listening to Louis Armstrong play trumpet. In general, though, instruments that typically play a supporting role are less susceptible to being caught up in their own little world.

Back to expected roles, I'm sure everyone has seen ads from rock or classic rock bands looking for a bassist, but "no jazz". What do they really mean? In jazz, bass can have extended roles beyond just providing bass, especially in trios lacking polyphonic instruments (e.g., sax, bass and drums). Even in a Big Band swing ensemble, though, there are more opportunities for the bass to take an extended solo than in rock (especially classic rock). For the jazz bassist, he/she may just be trying to spice up that "root note quarters" bass line a little bit, but to the rockers the bassist is just "overplaying". OTOH, in classic rock the (lead) guitarist is expected to solo on nearly every song.

This is debatable, but I'd venture that jazz bassists have a better grasp of melody (i.e. "playing lead") than bassists from other genres. Soloing is a different frame of mind than trying to play a walking line or even a short fill. Anybody here can easily come up with a bass line to a given chord progression, but could you just as easily come up with a melody for it? It's not something most bassists spend a lot of time on, but it can open up your playing if you at least try to understand melody. (Bassists that also sing lead obviously have an advantage here.)

At a recent jam session a keyboardists told me that from his point of view he could always tell when a bassist was trying to improv a solo on guitar. He said a bassist would always seem to hesitate and overthink instead of just going for it. I think that partly has to do with guitarists simply regurgitating a string of licks they've committed to muscle memory (i.e., playing by "reflex" without having to think so much).
 
Bard2dbone said:
Yeah but if I wanted just an Amaj7, I could use :
E---0 (E)
B---2 (C#)
G---0 (G)
D---2 (E)
A---0 (A)
E---0 (E)

I liked the chord I used for the sound, the timbre of the chord. It's just hard for smaller hands. And most humans have smaller hands than me.

My wife says I have orangutan hands.
I'm sure it was a typo, as that's an A7. Amaj7 would have one note different:
G---1 (G#)
 
Bard2dbone said:
Yeah but if I wanted just an Amaj7, I could use :
E---0 (E)
B---2 (C#)
G---0 (G)
D---2 (E)
A---0 (A)
E---0 (E)

I liked the chord I used for the sound, the timbre of the chord. It's just hard for smaller hands. And most humans have smaller hands than me.

My wife says I have orangutan hands.

It isn't too hard to play the first chord. (I have "regular" sized hands and it isn't hard for me at least.) Just making the chord easier to finger would probably improve the tone and timbre when it is actually played.

The notes between the first example and second are the same with only the E (7th fret 5th string) being omitted. The enitre chord could be played very simply by using your pinky to play the twelfth fret harmonic on the 6th string.

your chord: A-E-A-E-G#-C#

the alternate: A-<E>(@twelfth fret harmonic 6th string)-A-E-G#-C#

Omitting that E (5th string 7th fret) wouldn't change it all that much.

My only point is that there is more than one way to get the same sound and timbre.
:)
 
But it sounds different. It's not a huge difference. But i wrote the song this way and want it to sound like the way I wrote it.

There are other examples. This was just one chord from one song. But I drive my guitarist crazy because when we flesh out the songs I write, I try to turn him into as much of a clone of what I came up with as possible, and he has 'proper' technique for guitar that I don't have.

So it drives him nuts to be told "Okay. For this chord play a regular G chord for the first two counts and then add this D on the B string for the last two counts." "Wait. So you want me to play a G and then change it to a G? It's the same chord." Or "For the last count before you change this A, add a fifth fret on your high E string." "So you want me to play an A with an added A? Were you drinking when you wrote this?"
 
Bard2dbone said:
But it sounds different. It's not a huge difference. But i wrote the song this way and want it to sound like the way I wrote it.

There are other examples. This was just one chord from one song. But I drive my guitarist crazy because when we flesh out the songs I write, I try to turn him into as much of a clone of what I came up with as possible, and he has 'proper' technique for guitar that I don't have.

So it drives him nuts to be told "Okay. For this chord play a regular G chord for the first two counts and then add this D on the B string for the last two counts." "Wait. So you want me to play a G and then change it to a G? It's the same chord." Or "For the last count before you change this A, add a fifth fret on your high E string." "So you want me to play an A with an added A? Were you drinking when you wrote this?"
:D Just explain to him you took the chord voicings from Kenny Burrel or something. He'll lap it up ;).
 
Heh heh.

He can express himself later when we do the song in front of other people. But to get it out of my head I need it to be as close to what's going round and round in my head as possible.

Think about it. If your writing a song and the rhythm part you picture sounds like Red Ryders 'Lunatic Fringe', but the guitar player wants to do 'Johnny B Goode', he may be working on a song at the same time as you are, and he may even think he's working on the same song as you...but he's not working on the same song as you .

Once we've got the parts figured out John can play what he wants to. But while we're getting it straight, he'll do as he's told...[grumpy old man voice]AND HE'LL LIKE IT!!! [/grumpy old man voice]
 
Bard2dbone said:
Heh heh.

He can express himself later when we do the song in front of other people. But to get it out of my head I need it to be as close to what's going round and round in my head as possible.

Think about it. If your writing a song and the rhythm part you picture sounds like Red Ryders 'Lunatic Fringe', but the guitar player wants to do 'Johnny B Goode', he may be working on a song at the same time as you are, and he may even think he's working on the same song as you...but he's not working on the same song as you .

Once we've got the parts figured out John can play what he wants to. But while we're getting it straight, he'll do as he's told...[grumpy old man voice]AND HE'LL LIKE IT!!! [/grumpy old man voice]

:p

True,

but. . .

that one E note (5th string 7th fret) doesn't make or break the chord IMO. Aside from appealing to your dictatorial tendencies, I can't imagine that not playing that one note would be very important. (joking)

So yeah. :spit:

It is cool though, if it works for you then it works for you..

I will conceed to that.:D
 
I view my being anal about guitar voicings as equivalent to being picky about effects settings. I only really care how he does it while we're doing the 'keeper copy' (sort of a demo, but just for us) After that it can grow into whatever it wants to be. But until then the song is my creation. I'm kind of picky about my creations.

Back in the day, I ended up as our lead singer, not because I thought I was so good, but because I could basically do what I heard in my head when I wrote the songs. I didn't have the pipes to really do it. But nobody we auditioned did either.

Years later, I discovered that what I heard in my head was basically Paul Carrack. We couldn't have afforded him anyway.
 
I played guitar for like 3 months before switching to bass (like I wanted to in the first place). Funny thing is, I can still play guitar better now than I could before I switched to bass. The techniques are fairly similar.

Chords are still a pain, though. I haven't done much chording on bass, yet.