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Anyone moved away from bothering with a B-string?
- Thread starter topo morto
- Start date
Oh yes.
Hit that low note on the last beat of the song. Just finishes a number off in the right way.
For me, K.I.S.S. is BEADG. Here's why:
- All of my four stringers were equipped with Hipshot Xtenders. Nice devices, but with five string there's no more need to mess with transposing my low string, or changing its tension
- Best advantage of five string: more range in each fingering position. I still enjoy making wide position shifts for tone, but I can shorten a shift if it helps me play the line better
- As much as I like the idea of BEAD, the G string is a necessary evil (and don't get me started on high C strings
)
Play what you want, obviously there's no objective "best", just sayin' that 5 string is best for me. I wish I could have started on 5, but it wasn't a realistic option back in 1976.
Every time I've dabbled in a 5 stringer, it limits my ability to play certain styles that are designed for four string bass - predominantly Drop D: DADG.
I dedicated quite a lot of time in the mid 90s learning and becoming comfortable playing in standard drop D and E flat drop tuning. TOOL and other bands of that era (Soundgarden, Rage Against, AIC, etc. grunge stuff) are amongst my favorites of all time (plus individual songs like STPs "Dead and Bloated", Pearl Jam "Evenflow"). In order to maintain the integrity of performing some of the "trademarks" of drop D tuning, there are some techniques that just don't sound or feel "proper" when being imitated on a 5 string bass.
For example, the intro to TOOL's "Sober"...open low D, A string 5th fret, open D, G string 7th fret. It's not that you can't play this on a 5 string, but to play it with the same force, using the same technique as executed by the artist...sorry, but no dice.
I dedicated quite a lot of time in the mid 90s learning and becoming comfortable playing in standard drop D and E flat drop tuning. TOOL and other bands of that era (Soundgarden, Rage Against, AIC, etc. grunge stuff) are amongst my favorites of all time (plus individual songs like STPs "Dead and Bloated", Pearl Jam "Evenflow"). In order to maintain the integrity of performing some of the "trademarks" of drop D tuning, there are some techniques that just don't sound or feel "proper" when being imitated on a 5 string bass.
For example, the intro to TOOL's "Sober"...open low D, A string 5th fret, open D, G string 7th fret. It's not that you can't play this on a 5 string, but to play it with the same force, using the same technique as executed by the artist...sorry, but no dice.
Yes. Exactly! That one! Transposing trem for bass. Now, I know about their inherent issues. I play headless basses myself. But they could revive it in some other way. Today you have that Drop B-tuner in those bridges, DB tuner I think they're called, which are made to function as a headless HipShot drop d tuner, of some sort. You could re-design it, and since it is no problem to drop one single string back and forth between E and D you could do the same for three strings. I think even...was it Zion hyperbass used by Michael Manring? Full of switching machine heads that alters tuning on each string? Can't be that hard imho to produce strings that would be easy to set up like that.
Mind you, and everyobody else reading this thread. That even Dingwall 5 and 6 strings DOES HAVE DROP D Tuners at the E-string. Playing in the key of D on a big 5er isn't the same as having OPEN STRING D, or Eb or C sharp. So there's really something to it that Bucephylus said, that he's in contrary view to most around here. I e that the detuned 4 string sounds better than the same notes on any b-string. I tend to agree with that. There's always a weakness among all of us for playing OPEN STRINGS and especially if they're in the tonic of the key the song or part is in.
But by and large, I think if you change the drop tunings too much on a four string, the necks relief come into play and, playing too low tuned, the oscillation of the lowest string will be buzzing against the frets. Then the neck should be made so flexible that it immediately get's more relief as you tune down, in order for strings to vibrate in more space, but then again, then will action rise, and intonation is thrown off. So at a maximum of two halfsteps down, like Eb and D would suit me fine. In the key of C, I think that's the upper limit on a four string bass. I can play tunes in C on four strings, standard tuning, without complaining about low end missing. I think it'll only be c-sharp that you can't play open strings to and in that key. But how many top 40 songs are written in C sharp?
Maybe the old blues standard "Born Under a Bad sign" perhaps....I do think some of this will be remedied SOMEWHAT (the slacking of the strings while tuning down too much) with a four string that is fanned fret too. Then you can buck that large difference in oscillation to a certain degree, and the relief won't bother you as much. Something for Dingwall to take on? A four string Fanned Fret, but with ingenious NEW transposing whammy bar system?
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Blowinblue, no offense, next time, it's me that's gonna goof it up over something. But keep up the good posts!
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So there, why going from 5 to 4? Why is that rationalisation enough? Is there anyone bought Tony Levins signature MM bass with three strings and even went down to three?
Just out of laziness?
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Of course, bassdudeman. There are many tunes where I dont use the G-string on a regular 4 string that often. Maybe when popping and slapping for percussive effects and some two tone chords and occasional voice leading. I think in some kind of music, like country, and country style bass when doing the 1 and 3 beat, switch between root and low fifth all of the time, it is paramount that the fifth isn't above the root, but below, and then of course, a 5er will cover all areas.
- Oct 23, 2005
- 1,439
- 1,378
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: MTD Basses, Bartolini, Genzler Amplification, GHS, Tsunami Cables, Sonic Nuance
This last post demonstrates considerable ignorance of the origins and development of the upright bass, and subsequently the electric.
Better yet, just hit the low B at the end of every tune, regardless of what key it's in.
There's really no excuse for writing such a thing nowadays; do a quick Google search to check your facts first.
I love my Stingray 5!
Bad to the bone, low end punch.
Great playing neck and comfy body (imo).
I use the B quite often to drop low notes while still up higher on the neck.
I wanna put a hip-shot on my B string!
I can make people go poo poo in their pants
(sorry)
Bad to the bone, low end punch.
Great playing neck and comfy body (imo).
I use the B quite often to drop low notes while still up higher on the neck.
I wanna put a hip-shot on my B string!
I can make people go poo poo in their pants
(sorry)
Agree. Totally. Now, back to topic please.There's really no excuse for writing such a thing nowadays; do a quick Google search to check your facts first.
I wonder if those people who resort to 4 after a while, didn't feel comfortable with the low b, because of quality in the note, or just the added string, that it turns into some sort of "almost a guitar". And it screws the brain up too much trying to figure things out. Say, the problem I have - personally - with huge large 6 string basses is that I think "guitar" when looking at it. It's still tuned in fourths and screws up my visual pattern. A guitar regular tuning yanks the "tuned 4ths rule" when hitting the b string.
I mean, there's some unwieldiness and cumbersome ergonomics as fast as you add one string at a time. These 9 and 12 string basses are almost no basses anymore, they are extended range instruments. I find them excessively cumbersome to play, and inhibits my creative, thinking it would open up possibilities in creativity, instead it has the reverse effect on me. Same with Emmet Chapman Stick, and similar tap/touch instruments. I'd rather have them laid down like a pedal steel guitar instead of hangin them around the neck. You get "skewed" visual orientation, which turns out better if they are laid out flat, and you just tap on the strings.
I do think that some 5 string players are - of course - weighing in the advantages of having that low b-string, against the drawbacks, and easy and comfortability with 4:ers. We all don't wan't to leave the comfort zone. I do find some "bling" to anyone I've played with, that turns up with Jerzy Drozds, Conklins, and mulitstringed instruments as bass players, when there's both keyboardist and guitarists in the band. I can't help but detect some kind of immature show off attidude ONLY, with those people. That "brag trophy" I was talking about earlier. Trinket, ornament. I've never ever seen any keyboardist getting a 99 key keyboard, just for "I just have to have that range". Although, back in the days, they were stacking up keyboards, to have all these sounds at one time, before presets and storage could be made.
I do think that those 4:ers with dropped tuning will negate the use of 5ers somewhat. I think there's a misconception that a 4 string bass (especially electric) just have to be tuned like the first lowest four strings of a guitar, although upright has been EADG since ages. I like the BEAD tuning on most fours strings provided that they can produce a good pure fundamental, and has equipment who can translate the notes, which must be the same as any 5:er then. I would/could skip the high G any day, actually.
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The Ray does have a very good B, but I have five basses that have a better B than any Ray that I have played. It's above average, but there are a lot of better ones out there.
I think that is quite individual; I found my comfort zone with five strings and feel there is no advantage or ease and comfort with four strings. The wider neck and the added low B just feels more right for my hands, I'm lost on a four string bass now.
YMMV, to each their own, etc.
The best low B strings I've ever heard were on a Rickenbacker, and on an Electrical Guitar company bass... though that one was actually a low A.
The most consistent string to string tone for my basses is the Rick Turner Renaissance with phosphor-bronze strings; the tone is the same on all five strings up and down the neck. But that is the odd one out, the rest of my basses have a more or less dull B string, especially up the neck. But since I mostly use the low B for the extra low notes anyway that is not a problem. Plus you can use the duller tones up the neck musically for a different choice, for a more old school sound.
