• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Anyone moved away from bothering with a B-string?

#301
FretNoMore said:
There's really no excuse for writing such a thing nowadays; do a quick Google search to check your facts first. ;)
Click to expand...
I was speaking about in a traditional sense. Sure five strings have been made but not until after the fact when people wanted a lower register.In fact Giovanni Bottesini used a 3 string with no low E.Im not saying a 5 string upright has never existed im just saying generally speaking the roots of electric bass spawned from the 4 string double bass and theres no reason to believe that anything less than 5 strings is less than a bass. And like one of my responses said, Im not being ignorant I played in my schools orchestra for 4 years so I think I might have some experience with an upright ;) i guess people just didnt understand my post. I said they never REALLY had 5 strings as in very uncommon (when they where in their prime) not impossible.
 
#302
Sorry, but five string orchestral double basses have been around since the 1800's and many different types much earlier, and five strings or four strings with a C extension are not uncommon on double basses even today. Four string electric basses may be the most common configuration, but the reason for that is hardly because the double bass always has four strings (which it hasn't).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sartori
#304
I got into the 5 string game very late into my playing. I was on a 4 banger for 25 years before I picked up my 5'er. I bounce back and forth every now and again for funzies, but I love that 5'er. All the while I played the 4 string, I always wanted that Low D. It can really make a difference. So, I stick with my 5'ers and have a ball not having to hit open E and can run upwards of the 12th fret to get super ballsy and phat on those upper notes.
 
#305
Honch said:
Agree. Totally. Now, back to topic please.

I wonder if those people who resort to 4 after a while, didn't feel comfortable with the low b, because of quality in the note, or just the added string, that it turns into some sort of "almost a guitar". And it screws the brain up too much trying to figure things out. Say, the problem I have - personally - with huge large 6 string basses is that I think "guitar" when looking at it. It's still tuned in fourths and screws up my visual pattern. A guitar regular tuning yanks the "tuned 4ths rule" when hitting the b string.

I mean, there's some unwieldiness and cumbersome ergonomics as fast as you add one string at a time. These 9 and 12 string basses are almost no basses anymore, they are extended range instruments. I find them excessively cumbersome to play, and inhibits my creative, thinking it would open up possibilities in creativity, instead it has the reverse effect on me. Same with Emmet Chapman Stick, and similar tap/touch instruments. I'd rather have them laid down like a pedal steel guitar instead of hangin them around the neck. You get "skewed" visual orientation, which turns out better if they are laid out flat, and you just tap on the strings.

I do think that some 5 string players are - of course - weighing in the advantages of having that low b-string, against the drawbacks, and easy and comfortability with 4:ers. We all don't wan't to leave the comfort zone. I do find some "bling" to anyone I've played with, that turns up with Jerzy Drozds, Conklins, and mulitstringed instruments as bass players, when there's both keyboardist and guitarists in the band. I can't help but detect some kind of immature show off attidude ONLY, with those people. That "brag trophy" I was talking about earlier. Trinket, ornament. I've never ever seen any keyboardist getting a 99 key keyboard, just for "I just have to have that range". Although, back in the days, they were stacking up keyboards, to have all these sounds at one time, before presets and storage could be made.

I do think that those 4:ers with dropped tuning will negate the use of 5ers somewhat. I think there's a misconception that a 4 string bass (especially electric) just have to be tuned like the first lowest four strings of a guitar, although upright has been EADG since ages. I like the BEAD tuning on most fours strings provided that they can produce a good pure fundamental, and has equipment who can translate the notes, which must be the same as any 5:er then. I would/could skip the high G any day, actually.
Click to expand...
In my case, I have had the luxury of owning and playing some outstanding 5 string basses. In fact, the couple of 4's I kept around were kind of gathering dust. Ergonomics not a problem on any of my instruments. I always considered the HipShot to be a PITA cheapo work around. I've kind of backed up into using the HipShot over the last 5 years. Now, I actually prefer the sound of the detuned string for those lower notes. So, at least in my case, the regression to 4 + HipShot is about the sound; zero related to ergonomics.
 
#306
FretNoMore said:
Sorry, but five string orchestral double basses have been around since the 1800's and many different types much earlier, and five strings or four strings with a C extension are not uncommon on double basses even today. Four string electric basses may be the most common configuration, but the reason for that is hardly because the double bass always has four strings (which it hasn't).
Click to expand...
And the double bass itself is derived at least partly from the viol family... many of which had more than four strings (though they also had frets).
 
  • Like
Reactions: embellisher
#308
Fuzzbass said:
For me, K.I.S.S. is BEADG. Here's why:
  • All of my four stringers were equipped with Hipshot Xtenders. Nice devices, but with five string there's no more need to mess with transposing my low string, or changing its tension
  • Best advantage of five string: more range in each fingering position. I still enjoy making wide position shifts for tone, but I can shorten a shift if it helps me play the line better
  • As much as I like the idea of BEAD, the G string is a necessary evil (and don't get me started on high C strings ;))

Play what you want, obviously there's no objective "best", just sayin' that 5 string is best for me. I wish I could have started on 5, but it wasn't a realistic option back in 1976.
Click to expand...

If you think the B is about going lower than E you're missing the point. The B lets you move *across* the fingerboard instead of up and down the neck. Ever play a descending run in C or D and have to finish it an octave up? That sounds lame to to me. It's harder for me to slap on a 5 but with a wider neck I may overcome that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: embellisher
#311
For all of you who question the B strings :

DB had a C strings way before the bass guitar ever existed and there is also an iteration with only 3 strings ... there is also fingerboard extention have that low C without the extra strings, they also tune up for some solo part ...

so yeah whatever
 
#313
I simply cannot get the same sound out of my E string as I can the B string; totally different sound.

So I never thought about giving it up. Why give up an extra voice on my instrument that I use all the time?
It's so much bouncier than the E string, I love hitting it!

That said, I really want a 4 banger too, just because.

And I can see why 5 stringers would go to 4 if they never used the B for anything other than, well, B to D#.
 
#314
I pretty much only play fivers. Switched to 5 after my first bass, never looked back. If anything I've considered adding extra strings, but I found that 5 work perfectly for me. My ideal bass would have 5 strings and a very extended fretboard, in order to reach higher notes.
 
#315
Fuzzbass said:
For me, K.I.S.S. is BEADG. Here's why:
  • All of my four stringers were equipped with Hipshot Xtenders. Nice devices, but with five string there's no more need to mess with transposing my low string, or changing its tension
  • Best advantage of five string: more range in each fingering position. I still enjoy making wide position shifts for tone, but I can shorten a shift if it helps me play the line better
  • As much as I like the idea of BEAD, the G string is a necessary evil (and don't get me started on high C strings ;))

Play what you want, obviously there's no objective "best", just sayin' that 5 string is best for me. I wish I could have started on 5, but it wasn't a realistic option back in 1976.
Click to expand...

Dreamsinger said:
If you think the B is about going lower than E you're missing the point. The B lets you move *across* the fingerboard instead of up and down the neck. Ever play a descending run in C or D and have to finish it an octave up? That sounds lame to to me. It's harder for me to slap on a 5 but with a wider neck I may overcome that.
Click to expand...

In my second bullet, I said the best advantage of five string is having more range in each fingering position, which is another way of making your point: moving across the board instead of up and down. So, I didn't miss the point at all (and I've expanded on it in subsequent posts). So, hooray for being in agreement!
 
#316
I went back to all 4 string Spector at least one is tuned BEAD. Strings may be a little floppy but i make it work and it sounds fine i e just gotten used to play it that way. No 5s ever again . Only thing I'd Co side is a bass vi
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sartori
#317


Does anyone hear the low F# ? I just hear flubber. His high string is a 006. 006 on a 35 " scale (!?). Says it's a g-sharp (one half step higher than the octave string on a twelve string regular acoustic). He even seems to forget what they're tuned in also! He can't remember. Still calls it a bass, and calls it a 'she'. He uses one of the pickup switches when doing "regular country gigs, occasionally". (!?) It seems. I do not question this guys musicality though. Neither do I care for some of those acid commentary lines made by others. "Ugly" and so on. The only thing I can think of its: "Un-ergonomical" and should be laid down flat on your knee instead, like a lap steel guitar, or a pedal steel guitar, with stands*, and played like that (like the late Jeff Healey did with a regular guitar). In my view, it's more convenient for tapping, and gives a better "helicopter" view of the fretboard.

I've found out this though:
The more strings on it, I start to use tapping exclusively. If I try a 6 string, the only thing I'll do on it, is tap. Even on a 5er you can't funk, pop, and slap that much, as on a 4. It's the spacing. As it goes down to a four, one starts to play "regularly" again. I am one of those guys who thinks tapping (on any instrument) results in a too weak note, and tone, with absolutely no sustain at all. Especially high up on the neck.

But each to their own. If 12 strings rocks your boat, then go for it. Or 5. But as you add strings, slowly it becomes something other thing than JUST a bass. A grand piano has bass strings too on it. It's a range. No one calls it "extended range bass piano" or similar. It just covers that range too, and thus, not a sole bass instrument.

At some point, with all these multi-stringed instruments, and extended range basses, more and more parts of the tone range and scale, starts to sound INFERIOR, because the scale and string thickness and lengths are mismatched (by default) resulting in a too weak tone. It's only within a certain 2-3 octave range it sounds really good, or the best. This 12 string isn't even fanned fret which could mitigate it somewhat. So I can't help but think, that at some point in the string population it turns out slowly more into a "braggin trophy" or "social" instrument, that is more talked about, than played on.

This guys talks a lot more about it than plays. At least in this vid. My "limit" in range for neck width and strings is that I should be able to barre all strings with a barré chord with my index. It should cover them all. I think I'll make more use of that, than any kind of extended range that's showing up across/along the fretboard. So 5er is the limit to me. And even on some of these, there are very wide necks, that challenge this. The high C on any (6 or 5:er) sounds a little bit too weak and tense to my ears, and is out of the bass range anyway. In my book, timbre and quality of tone is a priority over instantly accesible and increased/extended tone range where none of these extended range notes sounds even remotely passable. They just pop out with a percussive thud, and dies out within one second. I've tried even fan frets on 6 strings, and still, no use for the high C or any note played along it.

To me it's sort of equivalent to trying to build an extended ranged tuba. Ok, it can produce some notes down low quite ok, but let's compete with the trumpets too. Can't be done.

* but then he won't show his marvellous instrument to the audience, they'll think it's just a keyboard that sounds like a Hohner Clavinet.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SeamzKing
#319
Each to their own, yes, indeed. Anyone choose whenever 5 strings or more is the overkill border that's crossed. Tony Levin chose 3 strings not to be overkill. However, when all things considered, it's a bit like the drummer- big kit or small kit - thing. If you're professional enough, and really skilled, and experienced, you can really show off your talent more, with just a small drum kit, with all the basics, one tom, on bassdrum, hihat and snare, and one cymbal. You don't need Terry Bozzios megakit to be able to pull it off.

The legendary bass players throughout the history, that has been influential for youngsters to start play bass, or influenced a whole generation of bass players, didn't start out with 5:ers or more strings. Very few 12 string "monster players" - if any - has "woved" others to go "Hey, I must learn to play....that extended instrument thing".

But as everybody else said, and what's the thread is about, is reminiscent of drummers - as experience grows - DOWNSIZES from a large drumkit, say with double bass drums, or one or two toms too many, and they go "I don't REALLY need it". When they themselves discover that that one extra string is superfluous, and ... overkill. Not really much more to it than that. There's sure a thing to it, the smaller the drumkit, the more you have to use your imagination and creativity to work within its limitation rather, than the other way around, that the more strings the better options you have, and you don't have to think about it that much because it's already there, all these colors, variations on scales. For example, if I would HAVE TO play these 3 strings basses used by Tony Levin, I would force myself to play artifical harmonics a bit more to reach these upper notes.

On a side note, I've always had a bit of resentment towards bass players, professional or amateurs alike, that stops playing- when playing live - just because of one of their strings snaps in the middle of a tune, and actually demands that the rest of the band stops playing. It happened the other week at a gig I was sharing bands with, the bass player even played a fiver. He had to take a break to change out his g-string! I am not that kind of bragging people but this was the first time that I thought "You wont EVER find me doing that, ever!!" Christ, the bass didn't go out of tune either. There was no other mitigating circumstances either, since the combo did just play blues standards (3 chord blues tunes). It was a seasoned bassist too. Like 40 plus something. That's a big no no in my book. On guitar, if it goes out of tune when snapping a string, it's more understandable, but anyway.

So by and large, I think people who have played 5ers and 6ers (or more) for a while, and then resorts back to 4 or less, have discovered, it has dawned on them, that their skills and experience has improved and doesn't really need more. It's always been in that direction. Never ever heard, that you need MORE (larger drumkit, more strings) in order to prove that your musical skills and virtuosity are improving. It's always the other way around. The LESS options available at your disposal, the more professional you are. I remember one interview with Pat Metheny Group drummer Antonio Sanchez when he was at the unviresity. He played in a big band setting, but tried to bring his huge Neal Peart drumkit along. And started to play and went all over the place. Showing off, and as fast as he saw a cymbal, he would hit it. And his drum teacher, got on stage with a wrench, and started to remove tom after tom WHILE he was playing. After a while, he was down to the most minimal drumkit, and it all started to sound much better. Antonio was outraged at first, but after it all, started to get where it was aimed at. Lesson learned.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back