Anyone play one of these?

[MultiScaleMale]

Keeping any small business going isn't easy -

The maintenance fees are kinda crazy. I guess the intent is to prevent people from patenting something and just being a patent troll for the next 20 years. You have to pay an increasing amount at 3, 7 and 11 years. Even the smallest amounts are not insignificant. It's not uncommon to see patents expire due to not paying the maintenance fees. It's basically the system working rather than any dig against Marcos.

 

[Passinwind]

I have family in Portland so if he's available next trip (considering the world we are living in right now) I will definitely see if I can demo his design.

Dallas isn't too far from Portland, but neither am I, and I can borrow one pretty much any time and would be happy to hook you up if the timing works out better that way. But I'd highly recommend visiting Marco's place if you can swing it.

Disclosure: Marco is a customer of mine and a close friend, and I was a badged electronics demonstrator in the Marco Bass NAMM booth this year. I have no financial stake in Marco Bass Guitars at all though.

 

[JIO]

The maintenance fees are kinda crazy. I guess the intent is to prevent people from patenting something and just being a patent troll for the next 20 years. You have to pay an increasing amount at 3, 7 and 11 years. Even the smallest amounts are not insignificant. It's not uncommon to see patents expire due to not paying the maintenance fees. It's basically the system working rather than any dig against Marcos.

I know - that's why I said a small biz is hard.

 

[Williethump]

The soundcloud clip sounds fretless to me. I've got a new-old-stock student Behringer 4-string I've been fixing up, put on a pretty, nice sounding $40usd Kmise Chinese maple neck and board that sports finger slicing fret ends. Thinking of either making it fretless or grinding the frets flush with the board. Might grind the frets first, and when that fails try this groovy weird trick. Then, succeed or fail, it'll join my beautiful Yamaha fretless in the closet because my intonation stinks. But nothing much lost. I'm too lazy to deal with fret smoothing so this will be a nice project. It will make it stop mocking me and join the 5-string and the fretless in the closet so I can forget about it, and the others, until it's time to sell or donate them all. Win-win!

 

[Turnaround]

The point where fingering the fb accurately voices the correct note would happen at the lower edge of the scallop, toward the bridge, if pressed over the center of the scallop. Think of that lower edge as the 'fret'. So that lower edge would be located where a standard fretted fb would have a fret - not at the center of the scallop. That's all I meant to translate.

OK I understand now. But I don't understand this, from the Marco site:
"When you play inside the grooves you have the fretted precision and when you play between the grooves you have the fretless sound" As others have said, between the grooves must be out of tune.

 

[Kukulkan61]

I’m digging your Avatar Man

 

[grinx]

i'd rather see some Frahnk-en-Steenian lever you push/pull to mechanically raise/lower the frets into/out of the fretboard itself
and then I still wouldn't buy it

 

[MultiScaleMale]

OK I understand now. But I don't understand this, from the Marco site:
"When you play inside the grooves you have the fretted precision and when you play between the grooves you have the fretless sound" As others have said, between the grooves must be out of tune.

I read that as you can do slides, still get fretless tones, but it's easier to play in tune with the tactile feedback. I guess I'd want to know it there is an audible click or something if you do a longish slide each time your finger slides over the grooves. Also, how does vibrato sound?

 

[Passinwind]

The point where fingering the fb accurately voices the correct note would happen at the lower edge of the scallop, toward the bridge, if pressed over the center of the scallop. Think of that lower edge as the 'fret'. So that lower edge would be located where a standard fretted fb would have a fret - not at the center of the scallop. That's all I meant to translate.

I asked Marco's primary NAMM bass demonstrator Matthew Reavly about this a few minutes ago. Here's his take:

As for the fretgrooves, the intonation is on the bridge side, as I believe someone correctly guessed. You can kind of feel the string sitting in the groove too, so it's not just a visual thing. Playing around on the one Marco had while I stayed at his place, it's still closer to a fretless in terms of feel, and definitely in terms of sound, but you just happen to be in tune more often.

 

[JIO]

OK I understand now. But I don't understand this, from the Marco site:
"When you play inside the grooves you have the fretted precision and when you play between the grooves you have the fretless sound" As others have said, between the grooves must be out of tune.

I plan on connecting with Marco in Portland when I next visit to get specifics on his concept. From his demo, to my ears it had more of a fretless sound (in general) so he may be referring to achieving 'precise' note articulation and sounding fretless.

 

[JIO]

I asked Marco's primary NAMM bass demonstrator Matthew Reavly about this a few minutes ago. Here's his take:

As for the fretgrooves, the intonation is on the bridge side, as I believe someone correctly guessed. You can kind of feel the string sitting in the groove too, so it's not just a visual thing. Playing around on the one Marco had while I stayed at his place, it's still closer to a fretless in terms of feel, and definitely in terms of sound, but you just happen to be in tune more often.

sounds good - thanks for this

 

[Passinwind]

sounds good - thanks for this

No worries. I'll throw a little more time at learning the nuances the next time I get over to the MB hive, which is likely to be in the next few weeks. Matthew's new build is currently in progress and I'd like to check it out before it ships overseas anyway.

 

[MReavley]

I asked Marco's primary NAMM bass demonstrator Matthew Reavly about this a few minutes ago. Here's his take:

Hey guys, I'm new to Talkbass, but I am Matthew Reavley.

I've played one of the fretgrooves that Marco currently has quite a lot, it's his personal one but he does bring it to some of the NAMM shows to demo. I have also ordered one of my own, that is nearing completion at the moment. I also have had a hand in some of the changes that he would like to make to the design and production.

As I had stated in my correspondence with Passinwind, the side of the groove that is closest to the bridge is the edge that is in tune. The opposite edge is not exactly arbitrary though, as the size of the groove lets you feel when you're "in". That said, I only really feel that if I'm pressing in/looking for it. Otherwise, it feels and sounds just like a standard fretless, especially if you have a lighter touch on the left hand. It's worth noting that I am rather experienced with fretless basses as is, and have no trouble playing unlined fretless basses in tune at gigs. I don't feel as though this gets in the way of playing it fretless, but it now allows you as a player more flexibility. I wouldn't tackle chords on a normal fretless, but I would with the fretgroove. Same goes for more tricky runs etc, there's just that bit more confidence in knowing you're in, especially without looking at it.

Also, the photo and the bass is indeed old, he no longer adds the metallic inserts as he found them unnecessary. It does mean you can't use fingerboard materials that are softer, but he generally uses synthetic materials similar to ebonol as they are harder, not sure if he offers this with ebony, but that is probably as soft of a material as would work with this (don't quote me on that).

I've only played them for a few days in total, but I got some good time in with them, enough for me to decide I would like one. Since these basses are quite unique and hard to make, I know Marco is not keen on selling them unless you first get to try them, since they are a fair investment. If anyone is in Singapore and would like to try one, I might be able to do that when I get mine, but I reckon that's not very many of you in this thread.

 

[Passinwind]

Hey guys, I'm new to Talkbass, but I am Matthew Reavley.

Hey Matthew, good to see you here. You might want to take a look at the Commercial User Policy and at least add a basic endorser's disclosure, it tends to save heartache.

 

[FugaziBomb]

i'd rather see some Frahnk-en-Steenian lever you push/pull to mechanically raise/lower the frets into/out of the fretboard itself
and then I still wouldn't buy it

Someone made that - might even have been Marco of memory serves me. The thing had a little lever that moved the frets up and down.

 

[Carl Hillman]

What would Jaco do?

Pawn it for some pocket change.

 

[Obese Chess]

I haven't played one of these, specifically, but Marco's basses are top notch and I trust that he would have anticipated the potential issues we are discussing in this thread.

EDIT: ah, I only read page one. I see we are WELL past this part of the discussion.

 

[nilorius]

Never played, sorry, but sounds kind of wierd - you play right on frets and got a fretted sound, but in the middle of the frets - the same but fretless = why? Are these fretts so special, if so, with what ?

 

[Bassamatic]

I can't see how fretted and fretless can both play in tune. Not possible.

HOWEVER - The Bass player for the Primal Kings, a band we share bills with, has designed and built fretted/fretless bass that WORKS. The frets retract to flush with the fingerboard at the flip of a small lever at the top of the neck! Works great. Sometimes he changes it during the song! He said he has several Patents on the technology and maybe we will see this on the market soon.

 

[HaphAsSard]

I don't understand this, from the Marco site:
"When you play inside the grooves you have the fretted precision and when you play between the grooves you have the fretless sound" As others have said, between the grooves must be out of tune.

I can't see how fretted and fretless can both play in tune. Not possible.

Nor was it claimed. As @MD-BassPlayer said, it probably just means you can do continuous slides. Plus (but just as unclaimed, unless you think the following as included in the concept of "fretless sound" in a wider sense), one can play in between grooves in order to do microtonal embellishments, as well as natural sevenths or thirds against a seventh- or third-less chord provided by another instrument.

i'd rather see some Frahnk-en-Steenian lever you push/pull to mechanically raise/lower the frets into/out of the fretboard itself
and then I still wouldn't buy it

Someone made that - might even have been Marco of memory serves me. The thing had a little lever that moved the frets up and down.

The Bass player for the Primal Kings, a band we share bills with, has designed and built fretted/fretless bass that WORKS. The frets retract to flush with the fingerboard at the flip of a small lever at the top of the neck! Works great. Sometimes he changes it during the song! He said he has several Patents on the technology and maybe we will see this on the market soon.

As revealed by a quick search, (one-man?) company named Mikey Guitar, whose website has since expired, used to make something like that.