Anyone using Sennheiser mics for vocals

[Droopy_TX]

Fact check:

- The 57 and 58 are cardioid.
- Super/hyper cardioid mics might be less feedback prone. If one knows how to properly set gain staging AND knows how to place the relation to the monitors (not the same as with carioid mics). And whaddya know, that's exactly what you have to do with ANY mic.

Haven't had any experience with Senn mics; so, can't contribute there.

My understanding, though, is that SM57 and SM58 have the same innards, and only differ with regard to end cover (spherical vs. cylindrical). The 58 beta is definitely a different animal, though.

We had a stage setup for Halloween with 3 mics across the front; SM58 on either side, with the 58 beta in the center where, given the monitor and mains placement, it should have been most protected. At the same volume as the others, that thing was on the verge of feeding back until we did some major surgical EQing to ring it out.

This is not to say it didn't sound good, but just that I think the hyper cardioid pattern actually made it more prone to feedback.

 

[awakefie]

But the real question is, which mic is best for metal?

Mothman f87 microphone, slogan "with Mothman, you know what the f stands for".

I have used both. 58 is a good mic, but didn't fit my tastes (used them for many years though). Band I'm currently in uses 935s. I have one, used it for a bit, but didn't find it to my liking (I mostly sing backup and Harmony). Bought a Beta 58a about 3 years ago. Sennie sits in the bag now. All are great mics, depends on your need and tastes.

 

[Drgonzonm]

I know this is an old thread, My BL, who owns and operates a studio swears by shure beta blues.
I just bought a SM58, for my lizardy voice.

 

[Chip Stewart]

I've used SM58 microphones for my baritone voice but found them to be a bit brittle sounding. I typically use a Sennheiser e835 which adds some warmth to my voice. I'm very happy with the e835.

A former bandmate used an Audix OM5 microphone which was impressive. Audix isn't as common as Shure or Sennheiser, but their products are definitely worth checking out.

 

[joebar]

I’ve heard my buddy’s band play live and I noticed a remarkably good vocal performance by all the members.
Turns out they all were using senns

 

[saabfender]

Love the e835 for female rock vocals. Gives them the "Pat Benetar effect." Sadly, her and I are no longer married.

 

[Jason Hollar]

I’ve always felt the Shure 58 is kind of like a P Bass - it doesn’t sound very hifi on its own - but it sits really well in a live mix. Having owned several dependable SM’s, I do prefer the Betas.

Whenever I run sound (on a relatively small scale) I appreciate consistency - like having all 58s for vocals etc. Helps me get everything EQ’d more easily. But that almost never happens! Plus some SM’s you find at clubs are so beat and sound like crap, they’re better off used as door stops.

I did recently buy a Sennheiser e835S because I needed a mic with a quiet on/off switch. I must admit for an inexpensive mic, I like it better than my Shures.

 

[Paulabass]

If I have an equipment rider I spec. Senn. 935 out front, 945 on the drummer. If no rider, I bring them. If it's a multi band show, I'll use whatever is set up.

^ Jason- I've been doing FOH for four decades. My OPINION, never mute (or switch off) a front line mic. It's hearing the backline, and is just best left that way.

 

[Jason Hollar]

Thanks Paula - no I get it - I don’t really do that much live sound for louder bands anymore - just on my own jazz gigs. I wanted a mic with a quiet on/off switch for a toast/MC mic and it’s an indespendible feature.

I also use an older model line6 XD-70 wireless. Its little mute button is difficult to push and it’s right next to the “select” button which is a pretty bad design in my opinion.

Interestingly, since that line6 is a modeling type - I just remembered I keep it set on the “Sennheiser” setting as it sounds the best to me.

 

[Linnin]

I've been doing FOH for four decades.

@Paulabass, what's your take on the Telefunken M-81 for baritone vocals or occasional bass amp mic?

 

[mesaplayer83]

If I have an equipment rider I spec. Senn. 935 out front, 945 on the drummer. If no rider, I bring them. If it's a multi band show, I'll use whatever is set up.

^ Jason- I've been doing FOH for four decades. My OPINION, never mute (or switch off) a front line mic. It's hearing the backline, and is just best left that way.

I used a 935 for a couple years - it was definitely several steps above an SM58... Currently, I'm using an Audix OM5 - and like that quite a bit...

 

[Jimbob Jones]

SM57 and SM58 have the same innards, and only differ with regard to end cover (spherical vs. cylindrical)

True. 57 & 58 have identical capsules & transformers. 57 casing is designed for instruments and cabs, 58 for vocals. I've unscrewed the grille from a 58 and used it in place of a 57 more than once in a pinch!

It's usually easier to dial in a system and reduce feedback when all singers use the same model of mic.

+1! Regardless of which mic you go with, I can't recommend enough matching all your vocal mics. IME if you have 3+ singers this is an easy win that will improve your sound much more than the merits of one mic over another.

The thing about 58s is that they aren't actually designed to sound 'nice'. They're designed to work well live. The frequency response is lumpy, but it means that they cut through. Rock gig with a loud drummer and tons of backline, but stuck with a 400W crappy vocal-only PA? The 58 has more chance of being audible when many other mics will be drowned out in the sludge.

As PA systems have improved in fidelity over the years, the lumpiness of the 58 has become more & more apparent, and the mic has understandably lost some fans. But here's the thing. It'll always 'work'. I've had great experience with the Sennheiser mics sometimes; but other times it's just been mud, mud and more mud. Especially the 835/845. I've had gigs where there have been better options than the 58 available, but I've never, ever found the 58 'unusable' in the way that I have with many other mics.

Also, you can throw a 58 down a lift shaft, drop it in a river and run it over with a dump truck and it'll still work. That's why it still has a place in many engineer's mic bags.

As for the Beta58, I've had mixed results. It's definitely a different beast to the SM58. It has a flatter response, and it sounds lovely in isolation, but, again, at tough gigs it just doesn't cut through as well, and it' harder to get a nice blend when there's a big frontline.

But the real question is, which mic is best for metal?

That one probably IS the 58, mostly because you can do this with it...

 

[mesaplayer83]

+1! Regardless of which mic you go with, I can't recommend enough matching all your vocal mics. IME if you have 3+ singers this is an easy win that will improve your sound much more than the merits of one mic over another.

I suppose that's true if all mics are sharing one monitor mix, but not if everyone has their own mix - then, matching mics really don't matter... Furthermore, sometimes different mics suit different singers within the same group - saddling a singer with a mic that just doesn't work well for them does not "improve sound", IME...

 

[TedH]

as suggested, go to a shop that will let you blind test, or order then new and return. I tried the 835, Shure SM58 Beta and Telefunken M80. Liked the M80 a little more than the Senn, then decided that I didn't like it $100 more than the Senn. Both the Senn and Telefunken sounded a bit warmer to me than the Shure SM58. Very happy with the purchase now that I tested the others. I'm a bass/baritone vocal.

The Telefunken is super nice if you are a dedicated vocalist; I really just do backups.

 

[Jimbob Jones]

I suppose that's true if all mics are sharing one monitor mix, but not if everyone has their own mix

Unfortunately, no matter what band you're in, you all share the only mix your audience cares about: the FOH mix.

While I entirely agree that there is merit to tailoring mic choices to individuals, that choice can't be made in isolation - it frustrates me how many people say 'I chose this mic after I A/B'd it in complete isolation from my band'. Take it to a gig, or at least a rehearsal and see what works best in context!

It's the same principal as 'bedroom tone always sucks'. Sounding good on your own and sounding good in a mix are two different things, and it applies to everything, not just your bass tone!

Anyway rant over. IMHO YMMV etc.

 

[mesaplayer83]

Unfortunately, no matter what band you're in, you all share the only mix your audience cares about: the FOH mix.

While I entirely agree that there is merit to tailoring mic choices to individuals, that choice can't be made in isolation - it frustrates me how many people say 'I chose this mic after I A/B'd it in complete isolation from my band'. Take it to a gig, or at least a rehearsal and see what works best in context!

It's the same principal as 'bedroom tone always sucks'. Sounding good on your own and sounding good in a mix are two different things, and it applies to everything, not just your bass tone!

Anyway rant over. IMHO YMMV etc.

"Unfortunately, no matter what band you're in, you all share the only mix your audience cares about: the FOH mix."

Right - that's why each channel has it's own strip and fader... IME, *Pro level* soundmen have no issue mixing with different mics - it's the less experienced/skilled/lazy soundmen that do, then compensate for their lack of ability/motivation by getting all singers to use the same type of mic... For example, I've worked with female vocalists a fair amount - their voices tend to require a different mic than most males sound their best with...YMMV, but IME/IMO...

The rest of the above quote I agree with 100%...

 

[JimmyM]

Ya, I see no reason why everyone has to use the same mic.

 

[mesaplayer83]

Ya, I see no reason why everyone has to use the same mic.

There isn't - and as I noted, it's not uncommon for male voices and female voices to require different mics to sound their best...

 

[farace]

Also, you can throw a 58 down a lift shaft, drop it in a river and run it over with a dump truck and it'll still work. That's why it still has a place in many engineer's mic bags.

I have a couple of Electro Voice 664 mics like are sometimes seen on '60s musical variety shows. They were marketed as the "Buchanan Hammer" because the president of EV would give a talk, then to demonstrate its durability would unplug the mic, use it to hammer a nail into a board, plug it back in, and continue his presentation. (Also could be used either high- or low-impedance depending on how you wire the connector, so I have a couple of different cables for them depending on what they're being plugged into.) Unfortunately my partner/our vocalist doesn't like the sound of them (and she's right) (then again, I found them both at different yard sales, so who knows how they sounded when new).

 

[Jimbob Jones]

I feel I should have qualified my original statement more, as I think (upon reading my original posts) that I said something I didn't entirely mean to. My apologies for this.

What I was trying (and failed) to say was this: If you're using mixed vocal mics and aren't happy with your band's vocal sound, try matching up all of your mics first and see what happens - you might be surprised. Then, from that consistent basis it's much easier to make informed decisions about different mic choices for individuals, if need be. (x person sounds too thin but y person isn't cutting through etc.)

For context, I've been mixing FOH at venues fairly consistently for the past 10(ish) years from little bar gigs up to 1000ish auditoriums, paid to do it (sometimes ) for the last 5. I usually end up using a mix of vocal mics (often some kind of condensor like Shure KSM9 or Neumann KMS-105 for lead vocals, then Beta87s or Beta58s for BVs). If it's a less experienced band, or I'm saddled with a PA that sucks, I'm always going SM58s everywhere though, because I know I can trust them.