Anything different for TV/film tracks?

[lowfreqgeek]

Justin,

When you're doing tracks intended for TV (especially) or film, do you do anything different bass/tone wise, or do you just go for it as you would any other project? Have you found one kind of general bass tone to translate better (like a mid-forward Pbass vs. a more scooped Jazz)?

I'm getting my feet wet with it next weekend and want to make sure I don't do something dumb that will create headaches when it comes to mixing. Don't want to be "that guy"...

 

[jmjbassplayer]

I don't have anything to really offer you in terms of guidance for bass/tone choices...every composer I work for is different, but they mostly just want you to do your thing. I will say, however, that lots of these guys are FROM the album/band world as well these days. So they tend to be more savvy than the trad composer stereotype who's forte typically just lies in the world of symphonic orchestration. In other words, judge your composer and research up on him/her. Their history will tell you a lot.

 

[pbass2]

I'll chime in here, speaking as a TV composer/bass player--don't worry about the medium it's being created for, just be prepared to deliver whatever bass sound the music needs, just like any other session. Unless you know ahead of time exactly what the required vibe will be, then make sure you have a decent range of tones(and playing techniques) on tap--modern, vintage, etc. I get 90% of my work done with a P with old flats, a Jazz with rounds (both passive) and something like a Hofner or Dano. Having a few effects on hand is always a good idea too of course (though personally, for my own TV scoring work I usually do any effects via plug-ins so I can easily change them at the 11th hour).

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Cool. Thanks! I've worked with this composer before on his own projects, but this is something new for both of us. He is contracted with a well-known buyer, so there's a good chance that our tracks could eventually end up in broadcast TV spots. We'll see where it goes.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

I'll chime in here, speaking as a TV composer/bass player--don't worry about the medium it's being created for, just be prepared to deliver whatever bass sound the music needs, just like any other session. Unless you know ahead of time exactly what the required vibe will be, then make sure you have a decent range of tones(and playing techniques) on tap--modern, vintage, etc. I get 90% of my work done with a P with old flats, a Jazz with rounds (both passive) and something like a Hofner or Dano. Having a few effects on hand is always a good idea too of course (though personally, for my own TV scoring work I usually do any effects via plug-ins so I can easily change them at the 11th hour).

I do have a good idea of the vibe for each track. I've been given the "inspiration" for each composition. This is all jazz, but lots of different feels and styles within the all-encompassing term "jazz". This will be a lot more "modern jazz", including some big band arrangements, trio, quartet, etc.

I will probably have a P with flats, Jazz 5 with rounds, and a Rick Turner Electroline Fretless 5 with TI flats. No upright for this session. Based on the info I've been given, those should cover it.

I was told a few years ago by a mixing engineer that things were usually remixed differently for TV, so that got me to wondering about the source; is there something specific that you might do a little different at the source to make it easier for TV? But it sounds like I shouldn't worry about that and let the mixing engineer do what's required to make it work for broadcast TV.

Thanks for the help!

 

[pbass2]

I do have a good idea of the vibe for each track. I've been given the "inspiration" for each composition. This is all jazz, but lots of different feels and styles within the all-encompassing term "jazz". This will be a lot more "modern jazz", including some big band arrangements, trio, quartet, etc.

I will probably have a P with flats, Jazz 5 with rounds, and a Rick Turner Electroline Fretless 5 with TI flats. No upright for this session. Based on the info I've been given, those should cover it.

I was told a few years ago by a mixing engineer that things were usually remixed differently for TV, so that got me to wondering about the source; is there something specific that you might do a little different at the source to make it easier for TV? But it sounds like I shouldn't worry about that and let the mixing engineer do what's required to make it work for broadcast TV.

Thanks for the help!

Sure sounds like those axes would cover a lot of ground to me! As for the final mix, it just depends. Anything kinda goes--for example, often I will have sent in laboriously prepared stems of a piece only to find out later they just used one of my rough mixes with my own quickie mastering on it. But yeah, for example on commercial work(I do a ton of that) there's often wall-to-wall voice-over, and the mixer will make it all work--just get yer tone and rock it.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Sure sounds like those axes would cover a lot of ground to me! As for the final mix, it just depends. Anything kinda goes--for example, often I will have sent in laboriously prepared stems of a piece only to find out later they just used one of my rough mixes with my own quickie mastering on it. But yeah, for example on commercial work(I do a ton of that) there's often wall-to-wall voice-over, and the mixer will make it all work--just get yer tone and rock it.

Those basses have done a LOT for me. The only thing I'm missing right now is a good "modern" sound, like an MTD or Smith or Sadowsky Modern 5. Not that I *need* any of those right now, but I might on our next project starting early next year. For now, I'm better off worrying about my playing and reading and all that than which specific gear-chain I'm going to use.

I'm excited to see where it goes. And, of course, I get paid regardless of where it goes, so I can't complain!

 

[Dan Bozek]

I was told a few years ago by a mixing engineer that things were usually remixed differently for TV, so that got me to wondering about the source; is there something specific that you might do a little different at the source to make it easier for TV? But it sounds like I shouldn't worry about that and let the mixing engineer do what's required to make it work for broadcast TV.

I'm an engineer/bass player too. Seems like we have a lot of that going around. :^)

The studio owner, also an engineer that has done a lot of work in the past, always bugs me to "listen to it on the [Aura]tones. Listen to it on the tones" when we're doing something for radio/TV/film. I love those super cubes, but I think worrying about mixing differently for that kind of work is a little dated. My TV has arguably the most hi-fi sound system in the building connected to it, and post people's homes are probably the same at this point, ya know?

 

[packhowitzer]

I'm an engineer/bass player too. Seems like we have a lot of that going around. :^)

The studio owner, also an engineer that has done a lot of work in the past, always bugs me to "listen to it on the [Aura]tones. Listen to it on the tones" when we're doing something for radio/TV/film. I love those super cubes, but I think worrying about mixing differently for that kind of work is a little dated. My TV has arguably the most hi-fi sound system in the building connected to it, and post people's homes are probably the same at this point, ya know?

+1. There may have been a time when engineers had to "mix for TV", but it seems like those days are mostly gone. I did a voice-over as a narrator for a pilot on VH-1 (it was not picked up). I was present for some of the mixing sessions. As far as I recall there was no distinction made about having to mix or eq any of the music so as to make it workable for presentation on air. There was obviously work done to allow for my voice to be heard properly as lead in music faded to lower levels etc... But for the most part, both the pre-recorded music - and the music made especially for the pilot- were recorded for their best sonic value, not for any particular medium. YMMV. Good luck!

 

[pbass2]

+1. There may have been a time when engineers had to "mix for TV", but it seems like those days are mostly gone. . . .

Well actually, I HAVE "mixed for laptop" so to speak When doing music and sound design for interactive I always check it out on teensy speakers (sometimes just pumping it through some headphones sitting on your desk does the trick!).

 

[Dan Bozek]

Definitely!! Like I said before, I love my old Super Cubes, and like to listen on all sorts of things. But my point is that TVs don't only have little laptop speakers in them anymore. ;^)

Another thing that sounds kind of cool, but I haven't tried is a plugin you put at the end of your master buss chain that "simulates" what the LAME MP3 encoder in various settings will do to your mix. Probably a little overkill, actually, but if it wasn't as much money as it is, I'd probably check it out since basically all of my music production work goes to iTunes.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

So, along another line of similar questioning in a related area (thus continuing this thread), do you guys sell or license your music, and do you tend to do everything yourselves with sequencing, or do you ever hire live musicians?

How does the world of TV and film music placement really work? Albuquerque and NM in general has a growing film industry. I've got a friend who owns the premier studio in Albuquerque and most of his work is ADR and voiceover work for a number of successful TV shows and movies. Another good studio changed from doing music to strictly foley. There's a lot of opportunity, if you can get in...

Of course, you can't make money if you're paying for studio musicians and studio time, etc. I've got my own little project studio setup and I could probably do quite a bit to that end without a huge investment.

Obviously, you have to have something worth saying, though...

 

[Dan Bozek]

Well, for me and my situation, I basically do anything that gets thrown at/to me. :^) The more the better!! I try to do only album/song production, (because that's what I'm most passionate about doing) but when I do commercial work, I try to use real musicians as much as I can. I find I definitely work better as a "collaborator" than a "composer." I usually try to build musician fees into the price for the jingle or whatever I'm working on when I can, but it usually ends up being me doing most of everything minus hiring someone to play an instrument that I can't fake either by playing one or using samples. Ha ha ha.

(Oh. And I HATE programmed drum kits like Superior Drummer or whatever. I'm a bass player. Go figure!! I LOVE sequencing, and the samples are killin' in those programs, but it's the act of trying to simulate a human playing a groove that always sounds stupid to me. If I sequence something it is because I want to sequence something and not because I don't want to pay a drummer.)

 

[pbass2]

Yeah, in my case, 90% of my commercial and TV work is all done in my humble home studio, played (or programmed) by myself---unfortunately the budgets these days kind of dictate that. I'm lucky in that I play bass/guitar/keys well enough to ape lots of different styles, and I actually LOVE drum programming With ad work, you really have to be prepared to change things in the track at any point, and in a hurry--not unheard of to be making changes the day the final mix is happening. So, programmed drums obviously make that easier to pull off quickly. When I do hire someone (usually horns or sometimes live strings--I use a guy here in LA who is basically a one-man orchestra) it's almost always done remote--they track in THEIR home studio. Same with live drums. And the advent of licensing artist/album tracks has also taken a bite out of the amount of original scoring that's being done for commercials and TV--a BIG bite. So I also license out my library of existing stuff, and am always making new tracks informed by whatever the current licensing trends are and getting them to my network of agency producers, music sups, etc.

I've heard that about NM and Arizona too--lots of production springing up out there. Might have to take a little trip to the desert soon . . .