Double Bass Appreciating the Upright Bass

[powerbass]

Bottom line. It's rough out there. Right now you are sequestered in so many ways and can't see down the road. What you find when you get out there and try to do this for a living is that you wasted A LOT of time. Because right now as you debate whether or not you like the double bass and should study harder than you ever imagined there is a kid, in his room or with a teacher who IS doing what you don't feel the need to do. In fact, there are thousands of them, right now, working on every aspect of the bass both acoustic and electric. Like it or not, you are in direct competition with these players and you will NOT GET THE GIG. THEY WILL! And you'll end up trying to get your **** together years from now while you watch the young kids around you kick your ass all over the room. There is no point in doing this halfway. If you hope to even gig on a medium level you are going to have to bust your ass, swallow your pride and do the work that it takes to be a pro. Don't imagine you're different or special or exempt from the forces of the market. If you don't feel this overwhelming burn, this all encompassing gut wrenching fear that you are going to be a failure and working at the A&P if you don't develop something solid, broad and artistic on the bass you better get it fast or change your plans. I couldn't be too harsh on this point. You simply will not make it. Now, stop complaining about what you think you need and don't need and start busting your ass in every way to become a complete musician. PRONTO!

+1 getting schooled! There's a kid from my region, he's 16 yrs old who kills on the DB, jazz/classical also a killer on piano too. Currently he has his pick of attending top conservatory schools. My bass teacher who is a Juilliard/NE Conservatory grad just shakes his head when he speaks about this kid - he is beyond talented. Thats the competition.

 

[fdeck]

You're correct, I learned pretty quickly that really the only thing that my BG experience gave me on the upright was a general sense of where to find notes.

As far as the music I like, yeah, funk and fusion mostly. I don't hate the jazz standards, there's quite a few I enjoy. But they're not my favorite either (yet?). As I mentioned earlier, I felt like receiving a jazz education would be beneficial to my playing in the aforementioned funk and fusion fields. Is this misguided? I don't know.

One area where your training might help is in composing and arranging. When you graduate, you'll be competing with quite a lot of players -- with and without formal training -- who can handle sideman work and function in bands. But there aren't as many players who are capable of taking a leadership role and creating their own new material. If you have your own unique repertoire that is marketable, it somewhat insulates you from competing with every other bassist in the world for your own job.

 

[damonsmith]

As far as the music I like, yeah, funk and fusion mostly. I don't hate the jazz standards, there's quite a few I enjoy. But they're not my favorite either (yet?). As I mentioned earlier, I felt like receiving a jazz education would be beneficial to my playing in the aforementioned funk and fusion fields. Is this misguided? I don't know.

I don't know about misguided, but it is kind of a waste of time and money if you just want to be a performer in those fields. Just practice and gig.

If you want other options open, especially in teaching, I'd stay where you are at, and get some DB chops, as well as anything else that is offered.

 

[Paul Warburton]

As far as the music I like, yeah, funk and fusion mostly. I don't hate the jazz standards, there's quite a few I enjoy. But they're not my favorite either (yet?). As I mentioned earlier, I felt like receiving a jazz education would be beneficial to my playing in the aforementioned funk and fusion fields. Is this misguided? I don't know.

Kindly, you seem to be obsessed with this word "Hate".
Yeth, kindly, you're misguided, IMKO, and kindly should seek professional mental and emotional guidance.

 

[TunnelPig]

Kindly, you seem to be obsessed with this word "Hate".
Yeth, kindly, you're misguided, IMKO, and kindly should seek professional mental and emotional guidance.

Oh, I must have missed something here. Are you a doctor?

 

[TunnelPig]

One area where your training might help is in composing and arranging. When you graduate, you'll be competing with quite a lot of players -- with and without formal training -- who can handle sideman work and function in bands. But there aren't as many players who are capable of taking a leadership role and creating their own new material. If you have your own unique repertoire that is marketable, it somewhat insulates you from competing with every other bassist in the world for your own job.

That's good to hear. I do enjoy songwriting, I started really doing it when I was in high school. Of course it's something I intend to continue with.

 

[TunnelPig]

I don't know about misguided, but it is kind of a waste of time and money if you just want to be a performer in those fields. Just practice and gig.

If you want other options open, especially in teaching, I'd stay where you are at, and get some DB chops, as well as anything else that is offered.

Thanks.

 

[Marc Piane]

Dude. I'm gonna give you some tough love here. Many people have given you advice and it seems like its not helping. So here it is if you were my own student. I think it is just flat out stupid to not pour 100% into a major you plan turn into a profession. On top of it you are paying LOTS of good money. If you are not going to take full advantage of the situation find someone that can't afford college to sponsor. Seriously. You are 20 years old. You are ALMOST a grown ass man. Part of growing up is doing things that are hard for you. I think that's really what it comes down to. DB is hard for you so you are discouraged and your defense is you don't like it. Guess what. DB IS hard. Now suck it up and get to the practice room or imagine all the $$$ you are flushing down the toilet by not giving it your all.

 

[Paul Warburton]

Oh, I must have missed something here. Are you a doctor?

Yeth I am....Doctor of spying BS, self centered and jive artists.

 

[Thooom]

Listen to Scott LaFaro (w/Bill Evans trio). You'll be a convert to the DB.

 

[TunnelPig]

Yeth I am....Doctor of spying BS, self centered and jive artists.

I find it kind of funny (but mostly incredibly sad) that someone of your age who's supposed to be wise or something would think there's any point whatsoever in flaming an anonymous internet user.

Also, why the hell do you type with a lisp? Seriously, it's grammatically correct to just type "yes". Easier too.

 

[TunnelPig]

Listen to Scott LaFaro (w/Bill Evans trio). You'll be a convert to the DB.

Will do.

 

[damonsmith]

Will do.

It is hard to say who will or won't inspire you. Check out Mark Dresser, Red Mitchell, Peter Kowald, Reggie Workman, Johnny Dyani, Arild Andersen, Barry Guy, Stefano Scodaibbio, Bertram Turetzky and William Parker.
All those guys are doing more with the instrument than your professors are probably telling you.

 

[lance_randy]

I felt exactly the same way when I was your age! I started on electric bass at 16, and started getting in to jazz at around 19-20.

I was pissed that jazz players didn't accept the electric bass. I didn't really much care for the sound of the double bass at the time, I figured all the jazz I liked would sound better, if the bass player was playing electric. That way I could hear the notes more clearly.

I didn't get an upright until I was in my late twenties. Before I cowboyed up and took the plunge, I figured that I was too old to try and learn it, especially since I had put so much work in to the electric, it would be like starting from scratch, know what I mean? That's why it took me so many years to give it a go.

At first, it was just brutal. I couldn't believe how anybody could play the damned thing, it was so hard on my hands, and my progress was so much slower than it had been with the electric bass.

Looking back on things; I realize now that I was scarred. Simple as that. Deep down, I really wanted to be good at it, but I was afraid that even if I tried my best, I might still come up short.

Don't let yourself be afraid. If you keep at it, I guarantee that it will get a whole lot easier, and the DB won't feel like such an awkward sadistic thing after all. In fact, you are going to fall in love with it

Give yourself a chance. It's ok to not be good at something right away. I know the humiliation of sucking on upright, when you can rip it up on the electric; It's a real boot to the nuts.

When we are young, it's harder to see the big picture; the light at the end of the tunnel. It's scary to commit to putting work in to something that is more difficult than anything else we have done previously. It takes great courage.

Don't make the mistake I made for so many years, don't let the fear win! you have a hell of an opportunity, and I promise you that if you give it your all, the rewards will be more than you ever dreamed possible.

You see, this isn't just about learning DB. It's so much more than that. When we stretch ourselves, and work our asses off at something that is difficult, we grow in amazing ways. We become more than what we were. The skills and inner strength that you are going to learn through studying the DB, will transfer over in to every other aspect of your life, enriching you in all kinds of ways that you would never have imagined possible.

I still love the electric bass just as much as I ever did, and I play/practice it every day. But man, there is a certain something that you get from playing an acoustic instrument, like the DB that is hard to put in to words.

Don't short change yourself. You can do this! I think that one day, (much sooner than you think) you are going to be so happy that you chose to stick this out. When you are older, you will look back at this struggle, and laugh. And, you will have the manly satisfaction of knowing that you ponied up the sack, and went for it.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Following Damon, let me recommend checking out Damon as well. I hope he will forgive me if this wouldn't be his recommended clip but it's the one I chose to illustrate the potential to do things only possible on DB:

Tel Aviv Solo - YouTube


And Brian Bromberg:
Brian Bromberg Chameleon Bass Solo - YouTube

And:
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Can't Stop Upright Bass Cover - YouTube

Christian McBride:
Christian McBride performing "Softly As In A Morning Sunrise" Part 2 - YouTube

Stanley:
contrabass - YouTube

Ray Brown:
Ray Brown 2000 - Ray's New Funk - YouTube

Marc Johnson solo at 8:00:
Charles Lloyd 4tet - God Give Me Strength [2000] - YouTube

Arild Andersen:
Gerard Pansanel / Arild Andersen / Patrice Heral Hyperborean - YouTube

In the end, musicians choose the instrument that facilitates making the music they are driven to make. If DB isn't for you, quit. However, you owe it to yourself to explore and consider that those of us who love to play it play it for what it allows us to do. Your opening post shows that you feel LIMITED by it, demonstrating that you haven't seen it's potential.

Personally, when I was in music school (10 years before you were born) I was forced to play DB and study with the principal of the local symphony. My instrument was a POS Kay and we never bonded so I played all of my gigs on electric. I was well into my 40's when I finally was ready to take on the challenge of playing DB and now I feel restricted when forced to play electric. Although each instrument has it's place, I feel that DB allows an almost limitless potential but you have to work at it.

 

[John Crosley]

There are a lot of bass guitar guys who don't like the sound of the double bass. The weird thing with me is I am/was exactly the opposite - I wanted my bass guitar to sound like a double bass. There is a percussiveness (is that a word?) to the sound that is unlike anything else, you just can't get with bass guitar. When I first heard Danny Thompson (in passing) I thought it was bass guitar (he has a tremendous amount of brightness and growl), but underlying his sound was that solid thump that you only get from the double bass. when I was a kid (I am the youngest of seven, with a seven year difference between me and the next youngest) one album Everybody in my family had on the turntable was 'Tea for the Tillerman' by Cat Stevens. Still one of my faves - it has John Ryan on bass. He had done work with Frank Sinatra, and a couple other 'standards' acts. But I love his sound on this particular album, although the playing is extremely rudimentary, it sounds great.

Cat Stevens - But I Might Die Tonight - YouTube

cat stevens - Into White - Tea For The Tillerman - YouTube

 

[Steve Killingsworth]

Also, why the hell do you type with a lisp? Seriously, it's grammatically correct to just type "yes". Easier too.

Paul's not typing with a lisp--he has his teeth out again.

If you're going to make a serious go of this music thing, you'd better grow a thicker skin. You asked a question using a poor choice of words and received some answers that were pretty blunt. If you kick a hornet's nest, don't complain if you get stung.

As far as your original question, I fall into the camp urging you to listen to more jazz featuring the DB. Nothing makes me want to play more or practice more than listening to Ray Brown, Red Mitchell, Paul Chambers, and a host of others.

That being said, the DB doesn't speak to everyone. It's not a bad thing if it doesn't speak to you, but there is a lot of wisdom in what Jason Sypher said earlier.

 

[damonsmith]

It is good to see the thread getting on track with the original title. I am not sure I have ever told my story:
I started because of Mike Watt, I still love his work. I was listening to Mingus and Coltrane but was not ready to switch. A guy at the record store basically forced me to buy Bartok's "Strings, Percussion & Celesta and a roommate moved out and left a Peter Kowald LP. After hearing all that arco bass I knew I needed a double bass.
My bass guitar felt felt so flat and one dimensional with out the ability to REALLY bow it - because sure, you can bow anything, and there are some nice things you can do with a bow on BG.

What I don't recommend is selling your bass guitar once you realize how much more you can do with the double bass! I had a lovely dark brown walnut Fender precision elite
gold hardware and white plastic parts. I'd love to have it now but I'd never pay what it would cost!

 

[Paul Warburton]

Maybe you should check out an institution.

I, kindly, have several in mind.......not necessaily involved with music.

 

[John Crosley]

My bass guitar felt felt so flat and one dimensional with out the ability to REALLY bow it - because sure, you can bow anything, and there are some nice things you can do with a bow on BG.

Besides the inability to actually bow the thing, to me, the whole sound of the bass guitar eventually became flat, or dead to me, without some heavy processing.