Are All-Fourth tunings overrated ?

[turf3]

btw i'm earnestly interested in OPs journey here and I would personally appreciate it that if you aren't: MOVE ALONG. you're not contributing. make another thread if you want to discuss why it's a bad idea. I promise I won't sub.

most guitarists have long since learned to deal with the b string. it provides a very rich interval presentation and a wealth of double stops exactly where you want them in the upper register. haters please just leave. OP may be on to something. you other dudes are ruining this go away.

this has been a great friendly forvm but this threak is leaving me cold

Sheesh, buddy, go take a hot shower or something.

 

[turf3]

obviously you would play the octaves on the 1st and 4th strings. honestly nobody needs your unfounded cynicism and if you won't give the idea any benefit I wish you would just leave.

You keep on with this and everyone WILL leave and you'll be talking to yourself. Settle down.

 

[z14giv1]

Your rules would be unlivable for me. Does "play existing music" mean you won't write/come up with new music? That's the main reason I play. (there are others) "Mindfulness" is a term that's emerged from Buddhist meditation practice and is the point of practice, it's basically saying air is air. "No noodling"- well that needs context. If it means being respectful of other people you are playing with, Yes, shut up until it's time to play and respect the material. Otherwise noodling is the same as day-dreaming. It's necessary for the creative process and sanity. I come up with new bass line music everyday and almost all of it comes from noodling and being mindful (haha) noticing of when something sounds Good. You write new music by not getting in your own way. Rules, dogma, suppression. All the antithesis of creativity and freedom. On the other hand, limitations can be what makes creativity possible, and one of those is tuning bass in uniform 4ths.

I don't always follow the rules, I even fail the metric some times

I try to play existing music to keep my practice «grounded». After decades of guitars, I skipped a lot of fundamentals, always pursued the wrong goals or aimed at unreachable ones, etc. I can't play all the part of a song I like. It had an impact of my ear training which by default is subpart.

I often played «things» without a backtrack, or a beat, so I may have found an interesting lick to play but it was impossible for me to reproduced as I operated by feel and ear with no consideration for keys, cadences, etc. As I stated my ear is lame, for me at least it is critical to know the context, for memorisation and ear training (another reason why I'm weary about shifting for good from the bass regular interval structure). So I say mindful but the choice of word may be poor. Sincere is any better? trying to play something I really hear or want to play. I use to noodle instead of practicing is may be an even better way to put it.


Back to the topic, I might stick to 4th. I read all the answers, there is nothing wrong with detuning the G. It makes hitting octaves up the neck harder, and ease lot of others things along the neck. For me the change feels less drastic than dropping the E string (which I do for a couple songs, sounds cool but I dislike detuning hence my failed research for a do it all tuning as a member put it, tuning is always a compromise) but I'm scare it would mess up the uniformity that helps me focusing on more musical things. The major 3rd is foremost an ergonomic consideration which helps some fingering for chords, arpeggios even some scales. The thing is those benefits may be more tempting for a jazz player which engage in not typical bass playing / solo, I'm not.

I will think some more about it, in any case, the option will always be there as detuning 1 semitone ain't rocket science and I'm familiar with that interval.

Overall I'm happy with my choice for the title, it attracted attention and I was happy to read a lively conversation and you guys insights. I don't intend to kill the topic either, just a brief update.

 

[ardgedee]

As far as alternate tunings go, two highly reputable guitarists might be good comparison for how applicable they can be...

Richard Thompson, who mostly works within British folk and blues idioms, relies on three or four alternate tunings and often plays polyphonic fingerstyle. On the other hand, John McLaughlin only ever plays E standard guitar tuning, and I recall a recent(-ish) interview where he's said that he never found alt tunings useful and never bothered to apply them. He frequently plays Indian fusion which uses a lot of nonstandard (in Western tradition) modes.

Unless you're working outside the 12-tone scale or needing to extend your range, alternate tuning is going to be more of a personal choice than a necessity.

 

[Akami]

I agree with those saying that the G is very useful, with the exception of some basses like the OP is describing, where it sticks out like a sore thumb sonically. Probably would benefit from some input on taming that string and making it more usable.
I had one instrument years ago that actually kept me mostly to just the two bottom strings because of an annoying imbalance in tonality and found so much freedom on the fretboard once I'd gotten a replacement with a more balanced output.

 

[logdrum]

I don't always follow the rules, I even fail the metric some times

I try to play existing music to keep my practice «grounded». After decades of guitars, I skipped a lot of fundamentals, always pursued the wrong goals or aimed at unreachable ones, etc. I can't play all the part of a song I like. It had an impact of my ear training which by default is subpart.

I often played «things» without a backtrack, or a beat, so I may have found an interesting lick to play but it was impossible for me to reproduced as I operated by feel and ear with no consideration for keys, cadences, etc. As I stated my ear is lame, for me at least it is critical to know the context, for memorisation and ear training (another reason why I'm weary about shifting for good from the bass regular interval structure). So I say mindful but the choice of word may be poor. Sincere is any better? trying to play something I really hear or want to play. I use to noodle instead of practicing is may be an even better way to put it.


Back to the topic, I might stick to 4th. I read all the answers, there is nothing wrong with detuning the G. It makes hitting octaves up the neck harder, and ease lot of others things along the neck. For me the change feels less drastic than dropping the E string (which I do for a couple songs, sounds cool but I dislike detuning hence my failed research for a do it all tuning as a member put it, tuning is always a compromise) but I'm scare it would mess up the uniformity that helps me focusing on more musical things. The major 3rd is foremost an ergonomic consideration which helps some fingering for chords, arpeggios even some scales. The thing is those benefits may be more tempting for a jazz player which engage in not typical bass playing / solo, I'm not.

I will think some more about it, in any case, the option will always be there as detuning 1 semitone ain't rocket science and I'm familiar with that interval.

Overall I'm happy with my choice for the title, it attracted attention and I was happy to read a lively conversation and you guys insights. I don't intend to kill the topic either, just a brief update.

What may work for you is a 5 string bass but with E as the lowest string. normally it is E-C but since you are coming from guitar you can tune the C to B. This will allow you to play bass lines normally E-G and then all the voicings or solos using the high B as you would guitar.

I am one of those people who have no trouble with alt tunings but for typical bass work I stick to common tuning , Sometimes otther band members will look to you for reference and you can totally disrupt them in say 5ths tuning

This bass player from Argentina / NYC plays the bass almost as a guitar but he has it tuned all in 4ths E-C . He says that tuning in E-B is not as efficient for doing chord voicings. There are guitar players tuning everything to 4ths. I've tried and it opens new possibilities.



Here's a guy that tuned in 4ths that went back to regular tuning and why he think it is is better creatively for soloing

 

[BassicJazzy]

As far as alternate tunings go, two highly reputable guitarists might be good comparison for how applicable they can be...

Richard Thompson, who mostly works within British folk and blues idioms, relies on three or four alternate tunings and often plays polyphonic fingerstyle. On the other hand, John McLaughlin only ever plays E standard guitar tuning, and I recall a recent(-ish) interview where he's said that he never found alt tunings useful and never bothered to apply them. He frequently plays Indian fusion which uses a lot of nonstandard (in Western tradition) modes.

Unless you're working outside the 12-tone scale or needing to extend your range, alternate tuning is going to be more of a personal choice than a necessity.

Robert Fripp made extensive use of alternate tuning, it was really a big part of what drove the musical stylings of KC. He said in an interview he "wasn't a particularly good rock or blues player" but throw him some strange tunings and bizarre scales and he was a genius player. He had to relearn how to play when he switched to standard tuning so he could accompany Toyah's band and do covers, and his playing is nowhere as good in standard E, in my humble opinion.

So it's really to each his own, and a lot depends on what you are trying to accomplish? Different strokes for different folks.

 

[wompwomp]

What may work for you is a 5 string bass but with E as the lowest string. normally it is E-C but since you are coming from guitar you can tune the C to B. This will allow you to play bass lines normally E-G and then all the voicings or solos using the high B as you would guitar.

I am one of those people who have no trouble with alt tunings but for typical bass work I stick to common tuning , Sometimes otther band members will look to you for reference and you can totally disrupt them in say 5ths tuning

This bass player from Argentina / NYC plays the bass almost as a guitar but he has it tuned all in 4ths E-C . He says that tuning in E-B is not as efficient for doing chord voicings. There are guitar players tuning everything to 4ths. I've tried and it opens new possibilities.



Here's a guy that tuned in 4ths that went back to regular tuning and why he think it is is better creatively for soloing

re: chord voicings flatting the 4th gives you access to whole tone double stops up the neck which would otherwise be unavailable. it's a really nice option imho