Are bass amps obsolete?

[glocke1]

Reading through the replies here, I guess Im just a dinosaur unwilling to change.

Sounds just like the album? I like hearing the "rawness" of bands. thats rock and roll...

No amp on stage? I still like to "feel it" and hear my amp regardless of whats happening out front.

Audience members all wearing earbuds? huh?

Frankly Im hoping all this "ampless" stuff is just a fad.

 

[Alexander]

I think the "ampless" crowd is pretty small outside of Talkbass. I go to lots of shows, big and small each year - I can only remember one show ever where there were no amps being used on stage. In fact, I see a lot of people doing small(ish) gigs where the only thing going through the PA are vocals.

 

[lpxerodin]

Reading through the replies here, I guess Im just a dinosaur unwilling to change.

Sounds just like the album? I like hearing the "rawness" of bands. thats rock and roll...

No amp on stage? I still like to "feel it" and hear my amp regardless of whats happening out front.

Audience members all wearing earbuds? huh?

Frankly Im hoping all this "ampless" stuff is just a fad.

I’m in the ampless crowd and I don’t think you’re a dinosaur unwilling to change. If you’re satisfied with it, why does it matter what I’m satisfied with?

I do disagree that going ampless to have greater control of the mix equates to losing the raw quality of rock and roll. Just because FOH has an easier time making the main mix for the crowd sound better and allows each musicians to hear what they want to hear without any issue doesn’t make the playing sound any more sterile.

I also think that ampless won’t fade away because not everything is rock and roll. Just went to one wedding and one art gallery show in the last three months. The wedding had a big band play with two vocalists and EVERYTHING that could be plugged in and sent through the PA was. Even the drummer had an electronic kit that was plugged in. And they sounded great because the bandmaster was able to better control more of the mix so that mixing the rest of the non-electronic setup was easier. Significantly fewer issues with horn and vocal mics picking up additional noise in the forms of drums, bass, guitar, and keyboard. The art show was a jazz quartet (keyboard, guitar, bass, drums) all electronic and all plugged in. And it sounded great. And they played way into the night because turning the band down to make sure no police was as simple as sliding two main mix faders.

I know for the group of guys I play with we have had way more consistent mixes and tones. I can remember our guitarist spending weeks in his house perfecting his tone only to loose his mind when his amp and cab were moved to a different room. Not anymore. Build the tone and master EQ it to the room and done. Our vocals are way better because we can hear what we need to hear and our timing is spot on every time because we can clearly hear each other no matter where we end up on stage.

The best way I can describe why it brings me so much joy is because imagine every problem you complain about when you play out being no longer an issue. poopy monitoring, tones not properly translating in a different size or shaped room, excess volume from one instrument or another, a struggling FOH guy who can’t push the volume louder without getting killed with feedback, trying to place amps and run cables based on a clubs poopy outlet set ups, amps overheating, monitor bleed, wanting the sound of a different amp than what you have for a different song or band... the list goes on and on. And the ampless set up plus monitors allows you to rock the hell out wit way less stress and significantly fewer problems.

But again, there is nothing wrong with you having an amp and never wanting to try something else. What works for you works for you and it isn’t wrong or bad. Without it, we wouldn’t be where we are today. My tone comes from my hands and my bass, but it’s shaped by the amp modeling in my pedalboard. If those amps never existed and weren’t so damn iconic, I wouldn’t have them at my disposal to allow me to play so many different styles, songs, and genres.

 

[JimmyM]

Reading through the replies here, I guess Im just a dinosaur unwilling to change.

Sounds just like the album? I like hearing the "rawness" of bands. thats rock and roll...

No amp on stage? I still like to "feel it" and hear my amp regardless of whats happening out front.

Audience members all wearing earbuds? huh?

Frankly Im hoping all this "ampless" stuff is just a fad.

Well it's been going on for 30 years at this point so definitely not a fad. However, I tried it on a couple sub gigs earlier this year, and there were times I was cool with it and times I wished I had an amp up there with me. On the bright side, the stages were not very big and even my smallest amp would have encroached on my standing space significantly.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

This is where I have settled into...a super hybrid preamp, a great SKB rack bag and a lil bit of creativity...

The preamp has a blendable 12AX7 tube/solid-state gain stage, dual band compressor, a switchable 12 band graphic with level control and pre-shape settings, active/passive selector and mute switch, tuner output with a pre-EQ DI and post- EQ/loops L/R stereo XLR outs to FOH and L/R(mono) stereo 1/4" outs to one or two Wayne Jones Audio 2x10 Powered Cabinets on retractable self contained dolly (1000 watts-Class D) on either side of the drummer on isolation risers. (The preamp also has selectable bi-amp capability with stereo hi-pass/effect operation that I never use.)

I have a PedalPython cable snake from my pedals into my mono loop stashed in the case pocket, a reverb into my blendable high-pass stereo loop that lives in padded pouches with my Moog expression and Fractal Audio volume pedals in the back of the case with two 16' line cables. All other insert/control cables are in the front cover pocket, then parked on an amp stand for easy control access either sitting or standing. (My pedals ride in the Tick on the MONO Bass bag.)

This preamp & equipment does all weigh in at about 35 lbs on a shoulder strap, but I'm willing to pack that, to have a professional tone/sound on stage or in a studio. My rig sounds great in any configuration, if all other things are equal...!

I also have IEM, but don't find enough chances to use them...

I don't G.A.S. over anything anymore...

 

[fruitlabor]

I have played with an amp for years. We were using in ear monitors in the church I was attending. All of sudden they decided we were going ampless with in ear monitors only. At first I was really upset about it but in the long run, it was nice. Still miss feeling the low end near my cabinet but being able to mix everything to my liking was great. Plus if you have a good sounding bass and tone in your fingers? It’s a great sound you can achieve with a good monitor system. I still will use a rack preamp occasionally.Of coarse there’s always a time for a good amp venue but adjustment for amps in different settings can get tiresome.
Although being a drummer also, I played in lots of top 40 bands in the 80s. One of the bands I was in and needless to say, best sounding,had no amps and no monitors.
Bass, 2 guitars, keyboards, me on drums and 2 vocalists. I had to used headphones with them to hear because I sing as well. The bass player mixed on stage. We had an exceptional sound especially compared to all the other bands that played the same venue. Sounded almost like a recording.Never really thought about it until now. I think EWF did it for a while also...whatever works for you, works for you...blessings

 

[Rodslinger]

Well, I was using the Darkglass X7, which has built in low- and high-pass filters...

Don't get me wrong - they did sound good, but I never got it to sound as good as when driving an amp and cab.

After a lot of soul searching, I recently bought a Sunn 300T amp, which literally has all the features I want from an amp. Separate and blendable channels, graphic EQ and compressor. IMO the best sounding all tube bass amp in existence. I had a brief stint with an Aguilar DB 751 before buying the Sunn. Fantastic amp in every single regard, but in the end a bit too clean for the tone I was looking for. I'm pairing it with my Epifani UL410 (best 410 I've ever played), rated at a 1000 watts, with great efficiency. Gonna record with a Radial JDX48 and micing the cab up.

I must agree with you. That Sunn300/Fender Bassman 300 all tube head is the best sounding, hardest hitting, loudest & heaviest amp I’ve ever owned. Only reason I got rid of my 1st one was weight. Within a year I missed the tone so much I bought another. A year later I sold it because of weight issues again lol. I may one day buy another.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

Bass amps are not simply about convenience and/or practicality (or the lack thereof) for many of us.

I simply enjoy hearing myself through speakers. When I can, I will bring an amp. If I can get away with it, I'll bring an Ampeg SVT. The sound of that heavy beast makes me smile.

They absolutely will be less common in a decade or so. We'll probably all have wireless basses with transmitters you can't see that send a signal directly to the computer used to run sound (that is the size of a pack of gum). Every audience member will be wearing headphones (tiny earbuds) that allow them to control the volume of their live band. Take out your earbuds and all you will hear are people talking and the sound of sticks hitting electronic drums pads. Your average bar will sound like a library until you put in earbuds.

So, not yet... but it's coming.

WOW!!!
All kidding aside, that might not be far off. I read somewhere (probably here) that there will be a time when some venues offer headsets instead of FOH. That would be pretty incredible. I'd imagine they'd have some sort of vibration devices under the dance floor for bass....

 

[lpxerodin]

I must have missed the comments regarding the audience wearing headphones. That would be a big hell no for me. Going wireless and ampless is all about FOH being able to better control everything to give the crowd the best and loudest rocking sound possible. It removes so many variables and problems that it allows us to rock the hell out while the crowd gets to enjoy it. It allows us to have better monitoring which also allows for a better performance. But if the crowd can’t feel and hear it, what’s the point?

I think if I ever played a show where the crowd wore headphones I would do one of two things...

Nope the hell out of there.

or

Bring a full rig since I don’t have to worry about FOH trying to take care of sound for the audience. If the sound coming out is only going to be heard by the people playing it since the audience is only hearing a monitor mix, then shag it. I’ll play loud and proud for myself and not think twice about FOH struggles since there won’t be any.

 

[Al Kraft]

WOW!!!
All kidding aside, that might not be far off. I read somewhere (probably here) that there will be a time when some venues offer headsets instead of FOH. That would be pretty incredible. I'd imagine they'd have some sort of vibration devices under the dance floor for bass....

While this would not be my ideal live performance situation I can see it as a possible and easily tech-feasible future. People could receive the signal via Bluetooth on their smartphone and use their own ear buds.

I mean if someone had told you back in the 60's or 70's that a 5 pound 1200 Watt bass amp the size of a school book would be powering a couple 22 pound 12" loaded speaker cabs in the future and able to level a building, we all would have laughed and asked what that person was smoking. There was a time not long ago when if it wasn't big and heavy, it wasn't bass gear worth owning!

 

[pigpen1]

While this would not be my ideal live performance situation I can see it as a possible and easily tech-feasible future. People could receive the signal via Bluetooth on their smartphone and use their own ear buds.

I mean if someone had told you back in the 60's or 70's that a 5 pound 1200 Watt bass amp the size of a school book would be powering a couple 22 pound 12" loaded speaker cabs in the future and able to level a building, we all would have laughed and asked what that person was smoking. There was a time not long ago when if it wasn't big and heavy, it wasn't bass gear worth owning!

I'd personally need some way to feel the low frequencies to still make it worth going.

Also not sure about doing bluetooth on that scale given limited range. It would be a giant multicast and it can get tricky.

 

[Al Kraft]

I'd personally need some way to feel the low frequencies to still make it worth going.

Also not sure about doing bluetooth on that scale given limited range. It would be a giant multicast and it can get tricky.

Yeah I agree, I was thinking about the type of thing they do in some theaters and auditoriums for people with hearing aids where with a certain type of system and hearing aid they can literally transmit a signal that the aid reproduces. I'm not sure about how that technology works exactly, but recall reading about it when I was helping my mom select very high end hearing aids.

Bluetooth was a stretch, but having some type of a local signal reception mode App/technology built into phones and a compatible local transmitting system was what I had in mind.

 

[seamonkey]

Live-to-headphone is really nothing new. Simulcast concerts have been around.
The tech is just better now and it's not bluetooth. Headphone rental is cheap.
Venues like national parks for a piano concert without disturbing the environment.
Gatherings where maybe some people want to talk, but the band is too loud.
It can lead to more places to play, not less.

 

[fauxtoe]

While this would not be my ideal live performance situation I can see it as a possible and easily tech-feasible future. People could receive the signal via Bluetooth on their smartphone and use their own ear buds.

I mean if someone had told you back in the 60's or 70's that a 5 pound 1200 Watt bass amp the size of a school book would be powering a couple 22 pound 12" loaded speaker cabs in the future and able to level a building, we all would have laughed and asked what that person was smoking. There was a time not long ago when if it wasn't big and heavy, it wasn't bass gear worth owning!

I think I would had laughed had you told me that in the late 90's/early 2000's. I had never heard of class D technology until Markbass came onto the scene. I'm sure it existed in some other form, but it wasn't something I was aware of. I once lugged around a vintage Ampeg V4B, an SWR 8x8, 2x10, and 1x18 cabs in a prog rock band that I was in. Yes...all of that. You know what? The stuff I have now sounds infinitely better and I can take it all in one or two small loads to the car. I still do not think bass amps are obsolete, but the options that we have today have changed the way we are approaching sound reproduction.

Also, the idea about an audience wearing headphones instead of having a PA blast them in the face is technology that already exists. Markbass used it in their booth at NAMM. They handed out roughly 50 pairs of wireless headphones to the crowd who were all able to hear the artist performances on their stage. It kept the booth volume to basically a silent level so that the decibel police didn't come and shut them down.

The bluetooth pairing technology also already exists for those who wear hearing aids. I knew someone who wore hearing aids that had a bluetooth receiver that could pair to their phone or other bluetooth transmitting device so that they could hear the sound better than what the microphone in the hearing aids could pick up. Most major (if not all) movie theaters have a bluetooth system set up so that the hard of hearing can tap into it and hear the movie better.

 

[The_Owl]

I like idea of a live show with high quality headphones. I prefer listening to music through headphones, so it's not a bad idea to me. Imagine having an app for controlling your own sound mix, raising or lowering instruments as you wish during the show. Wouldn't that be amazing?!

 

[lpxerodin]

I like idea of a live show with high quality headphones. I prefer listening to music through headphones, so it's not a bad idea to me. Imagine having an app for controlling your own sound mix, raising or lowering instruments as you wish during the show. Wouldn't that be amazing?!

I’m not saying I can’t fathom it. I could even imagine a few situations where this would be cool. But as a musician, I would hate to be part of this. Like I said before, the only reason I’ve gone ampless and wireless with in ears is to give the FOH the greatest control of what they present to the crowd. But that still means I want that sound system to still rock and move the crowd. I want the crowd to be able to feel the music in their chest and move them. All of the other stuff is just a means to allowing them to have that experience loudly without unnecessary feedback or monitor bleed or any other nuisances.

 

[John M Ewers]

If you never had to take an amp to the gig would you still own one? The answer for me is yes. I enjoy hearing my bass through a good amp. For me, the bass amp will never become obsolete as long as I can still play.

 

[lpxerodin]

If you never had to take an amp to the gig would you still own one? The answer for me is yes. I enjoy hearing my bass through a good amp. For me, the bass amp will never become obsolete as long as I can still play.

I’m not sure how my answer would qualify. I own our bands soundboard and speakers. Do I own a bass amp? Technically, no. However, I do have a pair of Mackie SRM450v2s that I plug my pedal board directly into from time to time and if I’m going somewhere to jam with some friends or a practice with a small pa only meant for vocals I bring them. So are they bass amps? Well no. But are they my bass amps? I mean basically yes. They just don’t have any tonality other than the monitor spitting out my pedal board feed.

 

[The_Owl]

If you never had to take an amp to the gig would you still own one? The answer for me is yes. I enjoy hearing my bass through a good amp. For me, the bass amp will never become obsolete as long as I can still play.

This will always be true for me as well. You just can't beat a good all tube amp, IMO - and this is coming from someone doesn't own a car or has a driver's licence.

 

[Paragon3]

I know it's stupid but I was reading another thread about using a subwoofer as a bass amp.. Well. I'm already using a 15" and a 8" ABY together and happened to have a 8" powered subwoofer sitting beside my bass amp.. So K got curious and wired the 8" Peavey MicroBASS to an Energy exl-s8..

I'm suddenly not thinking this is stupid at all. Admittedly it can get too muddy loud reinforcing everything everybody says.. But it also does something I don't get from my 15".. Really low bass. It also gets louder down low than the 15 does. It can get too loud to work with the 8" 2o watt... Which is just a practice amp anyhow...

But yeah.. If my MicroBASS had a DI and compression built in I wouldn't ask for anything else.