Are basses like wine?

[ThuzzleFump]

Confession. I am like a thousand years old. Whatever. But this means that I remember when "vintage" instruments were first starting to be a thing back in the late 1970s. Of course, the most important thing for a Fender was to be "pre-CBS" because everyone knew that when CBS bought them, everything went to hell.

Now, all of the then-reviled 1970s basses (from any major maker, really, but of course Fender is always prominent) are vintage instruments and command top dollar. And cheap beginner instruments from those days are being sold as amazing tone and mojo machines. Even instruments from the 1980s are being sold as "vintage."

Do we all now simply think that old instruments are better, regardless of their origin or craftsmanship? IMO we are in a golden age of instrument quality, and while I agree that there are some old gems out there, there are also plenty of old pieces of sh and much of what people hear (or see) in them is a product of imagination and silliness.

Now get off my damn lawn.

 

[bholder]

Stay off my lawn too! <shakes cane in anger>

 

[alembicbones]

Interesting comparison between wine and basses. No matter how long you age bad wine, it is still bad wine. That being said, an organic entity is going to evolve over time. A fine wine just after bottling or a newly constructed bass right from the luthier's bench might be quite awesome right off the top. A little maturing though will really show its true character. When it comes to a truly great vintage bass or vintage wine, it's the special nature of how it was originally constructed and how it was cared for over the years that will determine it's "mojo".

I can appreciate a nice bottle of wine and a nice bass. I'm not a collector of vintage of either. Here in Washington, a bottle that has aged for 5 -10 years is right in it's sweet spot. That works for me. My Alembic is about 13 years old now and is my oldest bass. I think it is an example of a bass that was awesome right away and with proper care, will be great for the rest of my life.

Bones

 

[Nev375]

Wooden things have a habit of bending and warping over time.

So if an instrument has survived 40 years and is still in good shape with the neck then it has real value over a new instrument that has not yet withstood the test of time.

Other than that it's mostly rampant romanticism.

 

[FingerDub]

I agree, the longer my bass performs well, the better I think it is. But like fine wine, it has to be made from the best grapes (materials) and in the best climate first, before it can be considered fine. Give me an instrument with a solid foundation above all else.

 

[bholder]

I agree, mostly romanticism and wishful thinking. There is another factor, though, especially applicable with less expensive instruments: to have lasted this long, increases the chance of any given one being decent; otherwise, it'd be in a landfill or a fireplace. Less true for Fender / big name brands, but still a factor.

 

[fuzzychaos]

Not all wine is better aged, and neither are all basses. Sometimes aging a wine turns it to vinegar and some vintage basses are lemons. I suppose, however, if you drink enough aged wine, that any bass will be good.

If you mean that basses are like wine in that you tend to make poor decisions around them, then, yeah, they are like wine.

 

[ThuzzleFump]

I like the idea that there might be a bit of a selection effect going on, i.e., if an instrument has lasted this long it might be because it was a good one to begin with. Had not considered that.

 

[Ulf_Hansson]

So if an instrument has survived 40 years and is still in good shape with the neck then it has real value over a new instrument that has not yet withstood the test of time.

I think this is a huge part of why some old instruments feel so good and are so sought after. After 40 years the sour grapes has been thrown away and only the best are still with us.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I too remember when only pre-CBS was considered "vintage" and desirable for used. Fact is, in the 80s, overseas collectors started snatching them up. Fender started marketing the 70s boat anchors as vintage when they realized it was a selling tool, and people swallowed the line.

 

[TMARK]

No.

 

[Shaunpski]

I'm more of a beer fan--although I did pick up a bottle of wine to go with today's President's Day winter storm.

Quality will always transcend time. I have a couple of '80's Gibson guitars, but no real desire to own a '70s model just because they are Gibsons. I certainly would not mind owning a birth year Fender bass ('66), but have no real desire to put money toward a '70's just because it is old. If I found a quality one at a good price, though... The nice thing about these musical instrument forums is one can get educated really quickly (at least enough to make a somewhat educated purchase). One can also get educated on "vintage deals" and find a quality piece at a good price. I agree. Old isn't necessarily better. If it was a piece of junk back then, it still is. Conversely, there are still some deals out there. Personally, I'm happy with the basses I have--none made before 2000.

 

[MD]

If basses were like wine, I'd be at the store every other day getting another one.

 

[ThuzzleFump]

If basses were like wine, I'd be at the store every other day getting another one.

Yeah, I try to avoid that. Usually I am successful.

 

[Doctor J]

There is another factor, though, especially applicable with less expensive instruments: to have lasted this long, increases the chance of any given one being decent; otherwise, it'd be in a landfill or a fireplace. Less true for Fender / big name brands, but still a factor.

Really? How many basses do you know of which were chucked in the garbage or burned? I'd say it's more likely they simply don't get played, get left in their cases and forgotten until found by someone who opens the case and says "Oooooh, that's old". These days they also go by the name "closet classic" and still command a vicious premium.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Confession. I am like a thousand years old. Whatever. But this means that I remember when "vintage" instruments were first starting to be a thing back in the late 1970s. Of course, the most important thing for a Fender was to be "pre-CBS" because everyone knew that when CBS bought them, everything went to hell.

Now, all of the then-reviled 1970s basses (from any major maker, really, but of course Fender is always prominent) are vintage instruments and command top dollar. And cheap beginner instruments from those days are being sold as amazing tone and mojo machines. Even instruments from the 1980s are being sold as "vintage."

Do we all now simply think that old instruments are better, regardless of their origin or craftsmanship? IMO we are in a golden age of instrument quality, and while I agree that there are some old gems out there, there are also plenty of old pieces of sh and much of what people hear (or see) in them is a product of imagination and silliness.

Now get off my damn lawn.

Yes, and like wine, if impropriety handled, and get too old, they will turn unpalatable. . Ie: vinegar

 

[reddesert]

Maybe ... I have a Harmony acoustic guitar, which I rescued from a Pasadena thrift shop almost 20 years ago and amateurishly glued some of the body cracks back up. Thanks to the internets I now know it's from about 1970 and probably cost $50-60 new (real money: $350 in today's dollars! ouch). It was always a beginner guitar, and now kind of a beast, high action, etc. On the other hand, it's made of solid wood and with 45 years of aging, actually sounds pretty nice.

Obviously, wood is more critical to an acoustic guitar than an electric bass. And I don't believe in magical mojo properties. What I do think is that gear and brand elitism sometimes blinds us to the qualities of instruments, until we can look back on them. So the weirdo Japanese guitars from the 60s and 70s that people looked down on because they weren't Fender and Gibson may now be valued for their quirks and qualities. Similarly the first 80s Squiers that were regarded as "not-really-Fenders" could now be realized to be pretty decent in their own right. And probably there were good instruments in the CBS era that people in the 70s and 80s looked down on, but now have their own cachet; while really terrible examples from the 70s have probably been fixed up or parted out, replaced parts, etc, by now.

 

[DigitalMan]

IMO it's a function of scarcity and a desire for people to have a tangible connection to the past.

 

[RicoTheBassMan]

No. Wine doesn't last long in my house. I hold onto my basses and enjoy them for a long time.

 

[Spirit of Ox]

This one is. Midnight Wine to be precise!