Are basses like wine?

[Ewo]

Whelp, having lived through the first wave of vintage-feevah, like the OP, all I can tell ya is that my new basses sound and play way better than my old basses (a '57 P and an early '60s J). I keep them for sentimental value--but I'm def of the mind that instrument-building knowledge has greatly advanced since the old days.

 

[Spectrum]

Many people just like things that have a connection to something they like. Being able to touch a piece of equipment that was on an Apollo moon landing, for example. Some people love that stuff.

Instruments are the same way. A P bass that was around when Dark Side of the Moon was released has a physical connection to that time, and presumably was used by a musician who actually lived through those days that we romanticize.

I was a little kid in the 1970s and early 80s, and I remember thinking, "Everything is dirty and there are crappy strip malls everywhere and I can't wait until the future, when everything will be spaceships and white and shiny like a Battlestar Galactica episode. Also, I hate funk and disco, and 8-track tape players are junk."

Now for some reason we look back nostalgically at that stuff, not just the parts we liked (Black Sabbath) but the stuff we didn't (Bee Gees). And there's that old P-bass in a shop beckoning us to take it home.

 

[Jay2U]

Only good wines from a good year get better with time...

 

[BassFishingInAmerica]

Now, all of the then-reviled 1970s basses (from any major maker, really, but of course Fender is always prominent) are vintage instruments and command top dollar.

Do not forget that this continual increase in value over time is not limited to musical instruments. It is an anomaly followed by anything of quality or desire -- cars, toys, furniture, gumball machines!
Many people make a good living off the hype.

Those pre-CBS Fenders were selling (in the late 70s) for the same prices that post-CBS Fenders are reaching now. So, I'll predict that 70s Fenders will follow the pattern and eventually reach pre-CBS prices in 10-15yrs.

Does a bass get better with age? No -- only its value.

 

[chris_b]

The term pre-CBS was in common use by 69 when I bought my 68 P bass. It was never one of the greats and sounded much better when I put Barts in and my Mike Lull P bass from 5 years ago, sounds even better.

My take is that I don't believe you have to buy an old bass in order to get a good bass, or that old basses necessarily sound better.

IMO, anyone playing a P bass from now that doesn't sound as good as a P bass from the 60's didn't buy the right bass.

 

[pbass2]

The term pre-CBS was in common use by 69 when I bought my 68 P bass. It was never one of the greats and sounded much better when I put Barts in and my Mike Lull P bass from 5 years ago, sounds even better.

My take is that I don't believe you have to buy an old bass in order to get a good bass, or that old basses necessarily sound better.

IMO, anyone playing a P bass from now that doesn't sound as good as a P bass from the 60's didn't buy the right bass.

I agree. There's so many great Pbasses available now that there are many excellent options at many price points that will continue to be excellent basses. So much of it is all about stigma from NON-bassplayers(that unfortunately, many bass players feed into). My 12-year old USA Glaub sounds/plays better than MANY 60's/70's P's I've encountered. But here in LA, you still get the occasional, "wow, sounds good for a non-vintage Fender". It's just silly. Lotsa people really listen with their eyes here (OK, I do it too sometimes, but I'm willing to use the ol ears too!).

 

[GlennRH]

I don't consider age alone as increasing the musical value of any bass. Most older basses are just older.

I have experienced how lots of playing and lots of exposure to musical vibrations over years improves the resonance of body woods, making a bass more musical over time.

Thus, I'd perceive higher value in a well-made, much-played, well cared-for older bass before getting a chance to play it (e.g. a pre-'91 G&L from a player who really played it, rather than just owned it).

 

[ThuzzleFump]

I don't consider age alone as increasing the musical value of any bass. Most older basses are just older.

I have experienced how lots of playing and lots of exposure to musical vibrations over years improves the resonance of body woods, making a bass more musical over time.

Thus, I'd perceive higher value in a well-made, much-played, well cared-for older bass before getting a chance to play it (e.g. a pre-'91 G&L from a player who really played it, rather than just owned it).

So does a poorly played bass get worse?

 

[2cooltoolz]

2014 was an excellent vintage for Fender basses.

 

[gaffster787]

!970's Fender basses have not really appreciated much...if at all. $450 in 1975 = $2050 today. American made bass prices have dropped, probably due to competition.

 

[timocharis]

Like a lot of geezers, I really enjoy the quality and sound of the newer instruments. If the oldest stuff was any good, it was an accident. Most have not aged well. So, no. They're not like wine. They're more like desk lamps. You can replace the bulb, wire, switch, shade, etc and keep them going, but they don't improve unless you strip them down to the bare bones and do a better job than the original. Playing them just wears 'em out eventually.

 

[bikeplate]

I love a nice old bass but a well made new bass smokes any old one

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Whelp, having lived through the first wave of vintage-feevah, like the OP, all I can tell ya is that my new basses sound and play way better than my old basses (a '57 P and an early '60s J). I keep them for sentimental value--but I'm def of the mind that instrument-building knowledge has greatly advanced since the old days.

NO it has NOT, Pre-CBS was the only viable period, when Leo (RIP old friend) was at the helm.
Back when the least expensive workable wood planks were employed, and a sewing machine motor was used as a winder.
Bolt on design was chosen for economy of production.
A hot plate with candle wax was used for potting the pickups to reduce the microphonics, and the bridge saddles were cut from threaded stock bar because custom parts cost too much.


JUST BEING FACETIOUS.

 

[Turnaround]

Like wine the trick is in spotting one that will age well while still in its infancy. There are a lot of really superb instruments being produced these days. But there's also a lot of simply adequate stuff, both in instruments and wine. And what shows promise today maybe a total flop tomorrow. Price is not a good indicator. Fashion certainly isn't. And there's no guarantee that yesterday's winner won't be tomorrow's vinegar.

A good friend has a wine cellar of about 500 bottles at any given time. Most are bought young - he likes the hunt as much as the tasting. And he says if 10% of the cellar become real winners he will be quite happy.

So buy 10 basses and hope that one will be great.

Or use an entirely different strategy. Maybe pick by serial number - use the same numbers you use for your lottery tickets.

I maintain that in the end a well-informed, experienced buyer stands a better chance in spotting the longer term winner. YMMV.

 

[ZenG]

Yes...I have one bass that's about the equivalent of a cheap bottle of rotgut screech....

 

[trothwell]

The only actual vintage bass that I have any particular interest in owning would be a 1963 Fender Jazz bass, as that was my dad's first bass. Not that I would necessarily decline a good deal on something else vintage, but I'm very happy with the current state of Fender products, and would rather buy a 2016 for $1300 than a random vintage year for two, three, four times that. Or more.

 

[Gizmot]

What I've learned is that there are instruments from several companies made in the 50s thru the early 70s that were truly magical. But - those were as a result of luck. The right wood, the right pickups, etc.

If you go to guitar shows or visit stores, it seems that nearly all instruments from that era command high prices. Although I can afford some of these instruments, I refuse to pay out the wazoo for these instruments just because they're old. I remember what these cost when they were new.

There are a few golden era instruments that are fantastic and worth the money. But -a lot of stuff out thrre iare simply 50 year old instruments.

By the way, instruments in general have gotten better and much more consistent because of CNC and other modern manufacturing techniques. Also new instruments are pretty good vales compared to vintage ones

 

[Laurent]

A fine wine just after bottling or a newly constructed bass right from the luthier's bench might be quite awesome right off the top. A little maturing though will really show its true character.

I might be unfairly nitpicking, your post is mostly accurate however a wine right after bottling goes into an odd phase called bottle shock. It generally needs 6 month to a year to show better.
Again, it's a point of detail but as I have worked in the wine industry for over 25 years I wanted to set the record straight. Inexpensive wine is generally released right after it's bottled so you will be rewarded by buying even inexpensive wine and aging it for six months to a year before drinking it. Pinot Noir in particular can show dramatic changes that will fool even an experienced professional.

 

[Ric5]

Basses are like wine ... when they get too old they go bad ...

 

[ptensioned]

Maybe the fashion/placebo factor goes the other way, too. In other words, maybe Fender et al actually made some decent instruments in the 70's, but because they were considered inferior to the pre-CBS gear by the cognoscenti, they all got dismissed as junk at the time.

The other factor is what our ears have been conditioned to like as a bass tone. I have listened to a lot of what is now called 'first generation' classic rock over my lifetime, much of which was recorded with pre-CBS Fenders and 60's Gibsons (EB-3 and Thunderbird). To my ears, that's what a bass should sound like. Now, music from the late 70's and 80's is considered 'second generation' classic rock, and others are buying those instruments to chase that tone.

Lastly, I do think there might be a mellow quality that old pickups and magnets take on as they age that could actually improve an instrument with time. The bass department manager at my local shop also swears that an old instrument that has been played regularly develops a character to the wood on a cellular level from years of vibration at specific frequencies. I'm not sold on the idea, but definitely think that pickups do change with time as the magnets age. Maybe even a bit like wine...