Are basses like wine?

[Mr. Sound]

Basses are like wine: The can be red or white and the cause of many a headache!

 

[dukeandrews]

Wabi sabi, son.

 

[DigitalMan]

Basses are like wine in the sense that if you call the cheap stuff crap you will quickly be labeled a snob.

 

[jaybones]

Basses like wine? You mean you have too much and wake up hungover?

Or mix types and throw up?

Or have one before beer, and also get sick?

No, I think fine basses are like fine wines. To be held on to, treated reverently and enjoyed slowly and over time. But then again, once a wine is uncorked its pretty much done within 24 hours...

 

[GlennRH]

The bass department manager at my local shop also swears that an old instrument that has been played regularly develops a character to the wood on a cellular level from years of vibration at specific frequencies.

I had this in mind when I wrote my earlier post, above.

I knew a violin maker in 1995-96-97 who'd make violins & violas by hand from premium woods. Once the finish was dry and the strings on & tuned, he'd attach stereo earbuds to the (wooden) bridge and play music constantly into each instrument for weeks. This 'conditioned' the wood to musical-frequency vibrations and made his instruments more responsive, more resonant, and more full-sounding. A/B testing proved it: His instruments were more musical after this sonic conditioning.

The concept already intuitive to me, his violins sounded so richer that I could only follow through. After 19 years of ongoing exposure of my bass (a '97 G&L L-1500) to musical vibrations (playing daily, keeping it close to the speakers of my stereo) I believe that it is a better sounding instrument now than ever for the same reason.

 

[timocharis]

Clarence Leonidas Fender never learned to play either guitar or bass. He was an engineer, and I think a pretty good one.

 

[swafran]

I'm pretty sure Leo didn't play guitar.

Inventor of Most Popular Guitar Could Not Play Guitar

Holy crap you're right. I was so sure but somehow melded the bios of Leo Fender and Les Paul in my head. *** brain, ***...

 

[Crystalman85]

That's quite an interesting analogy. if the bass you own sounds better with age, then yes bass guitar can be like wine. I'm a wine guy and this is kinda how I see it. if this however has something to do with the wood types on the body, I would imagine this comparison.

Mahogany - merlot
Alder - cabernet
ash- burgundy
basswood- sangria

 

[Dbassmon]

I think the analogy works better when compare bassists to wine rather than the bass itself. Most bassists improve with time under the right conditions.

 

[chadds]

Some minty fresh vintage basses that are discovered in the case tags still on, were POS. They were unplayable so were shoved under a bed so show next to no wear. That worn one was used and loved and gave music to its owner and the audience.

Since I was there when the CBS stuff came out I can tell you it wasn't as nice as our used '50s and '60s stuff. Trust me we would have bought the new immediately. We kept going home disappointed. That thick plastic finish for one. They weren't the resonant instruments we owned. Ours had barely aged. Remember in 1969 a '65 P is only four years old.

 

[superdick2112]

Holy crap you're right. I was so sure but somehow melded the bios of Leo Fender and Les Paul in my head. *** brain, ***...

Yep, Les was another story.
The man lived, breathed & played guitar to the very end.

 

[Ulf_Hansson]

If basses were like wine, I'd be at the store every other day getting another one.

If basses were like wine, I'd be at the store every other day opening, sipping and returning another bottle of wine.

 

[Slevage]

I mean, no, there's nothing to that, nevermind what I said. I'll trade you those nasty old basses for new ones, just PM me.

The price of something is what someone is willing to pay for it-----no measure of quality.

 

[TripleDouble]

I've thought about this too but not with regards to vintage. For me, a Precision bass is a Cabernet whereas a Jazz bass is a Pinot Noir. The former is thick, full, reliable, always gets the job done. The latter is temperamental, requires very specific context, can either fail miserably or soar to magical heights.

*I realize this is beyond bougie. I'm indulging my vices from a distance since I no longer drink. Humor me.

That's funny, I don't drink any more either, but I still like the idea of wine. It's just too bad about the heartburn and the hangover.

 

[swafran]

The price of something is what someone is willing to pay for it-----no measure of quality.

You're right about that. But it's not just collectibility. The reason people want them is not because they're expensive. They're expensive because people want them. And we want them because they're awesome. But yeah, try to convince others if you can. We'll take those old basses made of wood that just sat around before it was used, and pickups wound all irregular. And you can have the 2016 one with the same name on the headstock, but precision machined so you don't get any unsightly neck pocket gap. Everyone wins right?

 

[Slevage]

You're right about that. But it's not just collectibility. The reason people want them is not because they're expensive. They're expensive because people want them. And we want them because they're awesome. But yeah, try to convince others if you can. We'll take those old basses made of wood that just sat around before it was used, and pickups wound all irregular. And you can have the 2016 one with the same name on the headstock, but precision machined so you don't get any unsightly neck pocket gap. Everyone wins right?

Right on-- supply and demand

 

[dreamadream99]

Nostalgia. Pure and simple.
Doesn't mean new stuff can't be better.

 

[radioripster]

Gosh, there are so many variables, but I do believe that old, seasoned wood can effect tone in a good way more times that not.

I do prefer old/older/ used instruments over many new ones because they have "settled in".

Then again...I have some newer ones that sound and play really well.

I'm curious about how the newer ones will sound in twenty to thirty years from now.

hmmm.

 

[DirkP]

I had this in mind when I wrote my earlier post, above.

I knew a violin maker in 1995-96-97 who'd make violins & violas by hand from premium woods. Once the finish was dry and the strings on & tuned, he'd attach stereo earbuds to the (wooden) bridge and play music constantly into each instrument for weeks. This 'conditioned' the wood to musical-frequency vibrations and made his instruments more responsive, more resonant, and more full-sounding. A/B testing proved it: His instruments were more musical after this sonic conditioning.

The concept already intuitive to me, his violins sounded so richer that I could only follow through. After 19 years of ongoing exposure of my bass (a '97 G&L L-1500) to musical vibrations (playing daily, keeping it close to the speakers of my stereo) I believe that it is a better sounding instrument now than ever for the same reason.

Could you be more detailed about A/B testing?
Sorry, but I think this is complete nonsense. Besides "I believe...". Many people believe many things...

The most credible and scientific test I know, that was repeated under even stronger conditions for a second time, proved that professional violin players in a blind test prefer new instruments to Stradivari-violins.
Your earbud-violin maker should get into contact with the researchers who conducted that experiment and prove them wrong.

Invalid Link Removed

I have nothing against old or vintage instruments and if people like an instrument, feel good owning and playing it: fine with me. But the reasons given and rationalisations that cannot stand up to critical scrutiny are bothering me.

 

[GlennRH]

Could you be more detailed about A/B testing?

Yes. This violin maker was a retired professor of Audiology (thus more familiar than most with matters of hearing, incl the physiology and acoustics of bones in the head) and an active member of an informal network of violin makers. He had been making violins for 15 to 20 years when he told me about his playing music on and into the instruments he made.

He, like the others in his network of violin makers, always strived to make his violins and violas as much like Stradivarius as possible. Thus, he was quite picky in selecting and aging woods and in all matters of their construction. Several in his network had gathered, shared, tested, and discussed ideas about how to condition woods and whole, finished instruments to be as resonant and musical as possible.

He played for me a few examples of instruments he'd made before attaching earbuds to their bridges and playing music on/into them as described above. In A/B fashion (more like showing off), he'd also play instruments he'd made that he had sonically conditioned with earbuds attached to the bridge. The difference was easy to hear. The instruments he'd conditioned all sounded richer, more musical.

A couple of times, I met his violin-making friends. In the course of conversation (he also home-brewed beer), they mentioned that others in their acquaintance were doing the same thing and getting the same results: instruments that sounded fuller, sonically richer. They spoke as if they were in the know. They also spoke of people paying more for their instruments and more often buying after a single trial play (i.e. quicker to pay full asking price).

This fellow died about 13 years ago, so I could not ask him for scientific evidence. I had no reason to ask for scientific evidence back then, either. He had been Dean of the Faculty of Applied Health Sciences at a major Canadian university for some time, though, so he was better acquainted than most with scientific reasoning and practice.

Big shot scientist: Daniel Ling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also a violin maker: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Published article referencing his work in conditioning musical instrument woods Invalid Link Removed