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Double Bass Are Bigger speakers better

S

Sea are

Supporting Member
Oct 14, 2018
2
5
#1
hi, I was curious to hear your thoughts about this. is it better to have bigger speakers say 12’s or 1 15 in speakers. I currently have a Phil Jones bass setup 8. 5 inch speakers with the extended cab. For electric bass this setup is loud. But with my double bass I can’t seem to get a good stage volume. I have a k&k pre amp that I use, also have tried sans amp di and even bass compressor pedal using it as a volume boost. Small gigs are usually fine but on medium size gigs I feel that I can’t hear my amp as much. I play mostly bluegrass and honk tonk styles of music. I do send the signal to the mains which helps get it to the crowd.

I like my Phil Jones but have thought about getting a 1 15 if it will be louder.
 
#3
Bigger speakers move more air, but are slower and have a lower limit for high frequencies. If you are using a 15 in or bigger speaker, plan to have an additional midrange speaker. It is more difficult to get an even tone in all frequencies with a bigger speaker, the low end could be better, but it will probably more boom and less high fidelity...
My own preference for double bass would be a 10 or 12 in speaker with an additional 4 in speaker for mid and high range. The maximum loudness comes not only from the size of speaker, but even more from the kind /material of the cabinet and what is put in it besides air. The knowledge of the builder will be much more important then the size of the speaker in overall quality and loudness of a bass box.
An other problem is, that big speakers will usual result in much more weight...
 
#4
Agreed,
In a word, no, at least to a point. The speaker itself is only one of the factors, the cabinet that it's placed in is almost as important.
When my Ampeg B-15N(C) was built the JBL D130/140 was the best hi fidelity bass speaker on the market, but without it's Double
Baffle Reflex cabinet had a remarkable sound. Now we have 8" inch drivers that sound far superior to that amp. There are of course
the TC-115 cabinets built by Duke LeJune that sound incredible with a 15 inch driver, but they are much heavier.
 
#6
I have a box with 2x10", then another 8" and yet another 6" speaker. Three observations from my practise:

1) Bigger speaker plays more lows. Smaller speaker plays more highs. For double bass you don't need so much lows, as the double bass - at least mine - is very rich in lows, yet to hear your intonation you need to amplify mids and highs more. I'd say that smaller speaker is better for its highs; yet it probably wouldn't be enough on itself and you'll need to enhance mids and highs, using EQ on you amp, or smart preamps as Sansamp Paradriver.

2) My 2x10" goes to feedback with lower volume than 8" or 6" or 8"+6" combined. My explanation being no specialist: Speaker moves air, and the air moves the front and back top of your bass body, causing feedback. The bigger speaker, the bigger the pressure wave that moves your bass body - the lower volume causing feedback. Solution? Smaller speaker.

3) To avoid the feedback (and to urge other band members to play in reasonable volume), I want to avoid making unnecessary noise, so I point the speaker 'to my ear'; small gig rooms are such that if you hear yourself alright, everybody can hear you. And if not, then there's PA anyway. I always lift my box on a chair or shelf or something, or lay it down; just like singers with their monitors. Lift a 50kg box... smaller speakers is what you want! (Though 8x10" with only top speakers working would work as well, and you can store beers for whole bigband in the box too :)
 
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#7
Bigger speakers aren't better. They're bigger. Bass is about moving air in a controlled fashion.Cone size x excursion. The reason smaller speakers weren't used in the past was 1.They couldn't get enough excursion and 2. They are less efficient. They've gotten past #1. My 8" driver has the same excursion as a high excursion 15. Same with Phils little drivers. As far as #2----power ain't an issue anymore. So if a driver has high thermal power handling and long excursion there is no real advantage to big drivers. I have to take issue with someone that said big drivers have more bass and little drivers have more mids and highs. The latter is true---the former is definitely not. My driver with the biggest lows and most extension is an 8.
As much as I'd like to sell a cab---I think that the speaker is not the biggest problem. Pickup, pre and amp need to be looked at. And---learn about gain structure. I've taken about 10% of my 8" cabs back with so-called distortion. Of those, about 10% actually had problems. The others were all fine. Most of the problems were with gain structure. Bass players aren't used to lower efficiency speakers. They're afraid to crank the master.So---they'll have the master at 12 o'clock and the gain at 3 o'clock. Piezos have really high outputs and crazy transients. I didn't even bother putting a master on my 1200 watt power amp. I just watch the gain. I recommend putting your master at 10 to 12 o'clock and turn up the gain until it gets nasty after whacking the E string as loud as it will get in a playing situation.Kepp whacking and lower the gain until it doesn't get nasty. DO NOT RELY ON LED'S OR METERS. Once you have your gain set so that your loudest notes don't make it distort--you have your gain set. Don't change it. Don't rely on it for your volume. That's what the master is for. The other problem was a guy with an amp that was rated quite optimistically at 175 watts.Probably less than 150 if it's like their other power ratings. Not enough power for a 18. I'd say 300 watts at 8. I designed it this way because 300 watts is pretty common in the class d amps.

Pickup mounting is incredibly important. Most piezos that I see aren't mounted optimally.Preamps that sound great on electric may not be as good for DB.

The biggest advantage to bigger drivers is greater efficiency. If you are using a lower powered tube amp---the advantage goes to bigger drivers. Which is why I use a high efficiency 12 in one design.
 
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#10
I have an old HH 15, HH is a British company, they made some really great gear. The 15 is actually great, a back breaker, but, the sound I can get from it is amazing and I have never even had to push it, the headroom seems endless.

My other speaker is the new upshot which is an upfiring 10". It is outstanding, really great technology, the tone is incredible. It does seem to have a limit, though the low end is impressive!

My bass is loud, fairly bright and very clear, I use spiro solos so, I am able to get nice clarity from the 15". I use a Clarus 1 for either of these.
So, I'd say it depends on both the quality of the speaker and what you are putting into it.
 
#11
My main cabinet and speaker combination for the past few years has been an EVM 15B Pro Line in my DIY cube.
Along with my WW Electacoustic, FDeck HPF Pre Series 3, and B-Band D-1, I have plenty of headroom and can move plenty of "air" if the situation calls for it.
I like NOT worrying if I'm approaching the physical and/or electrical limitations of the Speaker (itself.)
It isn't lightweight, but neither is my Bass.
Thanks.

IMG_2983.JPG
 
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#13
Don Kasper said:
My main cabinet and speaker combination for the past few years has been an EVM 15B Pro Line in my DIY cube.
Along with my WW Electacoustic, FDeck HPF Pre Series 3, and B-Band D-1, I have plenty of headroom and can move plenty of "air" if the situation calls for it.
I like NOT worrying if I'm approaching the physical and/or electrical limitations of the Speaker (itself.)
It isn't lightweight, but neither is my Bass.
Thanks.

View attachment 3184566
Click to expand...
Pretty cabinet Don. Once upon a time I had a pair of Bag End 15M's, loaded with JBL E140's. I paired them with a Walter Wood's MI-100-8.
I could never get a decent sound from either the HPF Pre Series I or II with my Walter Woods Ultra. Just my luck I guess. I also had a Series III.
So their you go. My bass is 5/8th's, but with the Reunion Blues Case, it certianly isn't light either. So I hear you on that front.
 
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#14
It depends. The diameter of the speaker matters if you want to start doing things like making a line array-type setup. The parameters that go into which frequencies start to get reinforced/beamed in an array are directly related to the distance apart the drivers are and hence the diameter. You can do the same thing with bass frequencies, but you need a line array of very large speakers to move that much air--like a whole stage width's worth--so yeah bigger speakers are better in that arrangement but you need a TON of speakers.

For a stage rig--who cares as long as it sounds good.
 
#15
You want Bigger?
I also play Slab (5 string/Low B) and I have a totally separate rig for that music (R&B, Soul, Blues, Funk, Dance, Etc.) - I don't believe that one rig can excel at reproducing both Slab and Upright, so I don't even try. I hear 2 totally different soundscapes(?)
This cabinet below is my Rear Ported DIY 15" Eminence + 10" Eminence + Compression Driver (mounted behind the 10") and Fostex Horn, with a Bag End Crossover. (Driven by an SWR SM-400 Bridged Mono.)
It sounds great. It weighs about 85 lbs. It can blow out candles. (??)
I am of the belief that there are no shortcuts when it comes to accurate, faithful, full frequency, fundamental, high volume, cabinet designs. Maybe there will be in the future, but for me, Size Does Matter. The size of this box/and drivers, is a big part of its performance, IMO.
In my situation, we, the rhythm section (Drums/Keys/Bass/Guitar), are NOT in the PA - only Vocals and Horns are in the PA. So, our stage volume needs to match and support the PA level. (NOT Stupid Loud... But Not Wimpy, either.)
I understand that some folks are looking to lighten their load, but for me, the Schlep is worth it.
But that's me...
Thanks.
IMG_3010.JPG
 
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#16
The first time I played my upright through a Baer ML112, I was shocked at the clarity and volume without feedback. The 6in high efficiency mid driver was so articulate. At low volume it gave me punch and presence. The 12in woofer moved just enough to give a "bigness" to the sound. At higher volume it was all about the bass, not so much the box. With my old bass fitted with a FullCircle, I could get a lot of volume without feedback. Older, solid. rather heavy German bass. Not a lot of vibration. The bass I have now has thinner wood and a lot of vibration. I'm finding it much harder to amplify it. So even with the best gear, it all starts with the bass. your mileage may vary.
 
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#19
Don Kasper said:
You want Bigger?
I also play Slab (5 string/Low B) and I

I am of the belief that there are no shortcuts when it comes to accurate, faithful, full frequency, fundamental, high volume, cabinet designs. Maybe there will be in the future, but for me, Size Does Matter. The size of this box/and drivers, is a big part of its performance, IMO.
In my situation, we, the rhythm section (Drums/Keys/Bass/Guitar), are NOT in the PA - only Vocals and Horns are in the PA. So, our stage volume needs to match and support the PA level. (NOT Stupid Loud... But Not Wimpy, either.)
I understand that some folks are looking to lighten their load, but for me, the Schlep is worth it.
But that's me...
Thanks.
View attachment 3185326
Click to expand...

Nice box

Well, I have to tell you Don that if you ever get the opportunity to test drive a Audiokinesis TC-112 take it.
I had one and from my personal experience giging with it, it is absolutely the best for those high volume
hornband gigs and it weighs 30lbs. Plus it sounds amazing with Double Bass, mostly because it has
one of the best crossovers I've every experienced. The overlap and transition between the driver and the
horn are so good that you just don't have any issues hearing what your doing even outside on a good sized
stage. I sold mine last year and kind of regret it a little.
 
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#20
Thank you all for your input. I will be tinkering around more with my pickup and preamp. Before I make an quick decisions to buy a new cabinet. I do like my current amp set up. And after reading this thread realize that I may be the issue and not my amp.
So I will be in the wood shed working it out
 

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