Are on board active preamps really necessary ?

[BurningSkies]

Most of the ones I build have around 1.2dB of gain at flat settings, since many end users seem to like hearing a difference when switching modes. That's a complete non issue with the vast majority of commercial bass gear. My own DIY amps have an active/passive switch that actually optimizes for active basses, by changing input impedance to at least an order of magnitude lower. No level cut, as none is needed. That makes the overall system noticeably less noisy and sometimes also noticeably smoother sounding, but that quires, gasp...a switch. The humanity! View attachment 3321294

But knobs, Charlie, how many knobs. People are really concerned about the number of knobs and switches. ;P

3 of my Dingwalls have passive/active switches and I experience no change in output level when going between. And for years people thought my Afterburner 1 was an active bass...no...it was passive and running the pickups in series made people think it was. That's not all that different from a P-bass...and one of the reasons that P's and J's sound different.

 

[dave64o]

Plug an active bass in. Use the active button on my amp. Lose at least half my volume. I love the playability of my Stingray, but lose so much volume with it compare to my pbass or Thunderbird

Or you could do what most active bass players have done for years and not use an 'active' button or input on your amp? It's just a pad and most of those are intended for poorly implemented preamps. I've been playing active basses for years and have never seen the need to use that feature on any amps that provided it.

All of my heads have either an active input or an input pad and I always plug into the passive input and the only time I use the input pad is when I make a conscious decision to keep my volume level down. That's true for both my active basses and passive basses (my collection is a 50-50 active/passive split, including a Stingray) and I've never experienced a problem.

 

[Turnaround]

As a veteran electronics expert and designer of guitars, amplifiers, PAs, etc, I can speak with authority on this subject. The bottom line is simply this. There is virtually NO - repeat NO - electronic or musical advantage to locating any electronic processing on board the guitar.

I heartily disagree. It's a distinct advantage to have a set of controls like those on my amp at my fingertips as I am playing.

 

[BurningSkies]

I heartily disagree. It's a distinct advantage to have a set of controls like those on my amp at my fingertips as I am playing.

THIS. ^^^ I'd much rather be at hand's reach mid song or between songs than have to turn around and walk back to my amp. Also I use some effects...and things like envelope filters, octaves, synths, prefer to be fed certain kinds of signal. Way easier to fine tune that from my bass than from my amp.

Also if you use long runs of cable or a big pedal board...your preamp is a buffer.

 

[somebrains]

Part of me just wants to tell you that you couldn't be more wrong, the other part tells me that you wouldn't listen even if I did say that.

I guess he didn’t like the early Alice In Chains albums.

 

[dave64o]

I heartily disagree. It's a distinct advantage to have a set of controls like those on my amp at my fingertips as I am playing.

THIS. ^^^ I'd much rather be at hand's reach mid song or between songs than have to turn around and walk back to my amp. Also I use some effects...and things like envelope filters, octaves, synths, prefer to be fed certain kinds of signal. Way easier to fine tune that from my bass than from my amp.

Also if you use long runs of cable or a big pedal board...your preamp is a buffer.

Me too.

I don't play in big enough spaces where there's room to quickly and easily get to my amp to make adjustments. There's always drums and either a keyboard player or a guitar player blocking access to my amp. So there absolutely IS an advantage to the having active preamps on my active basses. That doesn't mean I don't play my passive basses. I do play them - and like them. But the active basses *do* have that advantage.

 

[mdogs]

I heartily disagree. It's a distinct advantage to have a set of controls like those on my amp at my fingertips as I am playing.

I am pretty much blind, okay just old with really bad eyesight, and it is much easier to feel my way around the knobs on my bass than it is on my amp. BTW, I believe this is the case even for people with better eyesight than me.

 

[mdogs]

I guess he didn’t like the early Alice In Chains albums.

And a million other bands/bass players who have recorded with active basses over the years. I think most people would be shocked at how many recordings that come out of Nashville were done on active basses. the first time I recorded there, the engineer told me that you really only needed 3 basses to work there. Of course a P and a J and then a 5 string Stingray. Times have changed, I guess that was 25 years ago or so, but you get the point.

 

[Phil Bonk]

Tones - in phase, out of phase..., out of phase, in phase...

 

[somebrains]

And a million other bands/bass players who have recorded with active basses over the years. I think most people would be shocked at how many recordings that come out of Nashville were done on active basses. the first time I recorded there, the engineer told me that you really only needed 3 basses to work there. Of course a P and a J and then a 5 string Stingray. Times have changed, I guess that was 25 years ago or so, but you get the point.

I delve into the Latin Jazz clips on YouTube when I wanna kick myself to practice.
Warwick, Tobias, Pedulla, Sadowsky, Spector, etc are all being used alongside your usual passive fender shaped thing.

Oscar Stagnaro stands out bc when I listen to him playing different basses, or a bass with changed electronics payloads, I notice how his playing will change to accommodate or control his phrasing given whatever state his bass is in.

We are taking our gear for a ride, our gear isn’t taking us thru sheets.
Passive doesn’t mean no control, conversely active doesn’t mean you are the master of your universe.

I literally just boosted my GZR pjs out of that unusable clanky scoopy thing when they’re blended with an 18v preamp and a dipswitch shift of that preamps eq points. Pull passive for sanity checks. There, the Spector is a little less sucky for now. Cant do that passive.

Either way could you imagine having this guy as your bass teacher for a semester?

 

[chadds]

Then there’s your G&L L-1000 that sounds feels and punches like it’s active.
Look ma no batts.

Okay to way above, I so disagree. The controls on an amp are for adjusting your dealeo to the room acoustics. The ones in your bass are for your tone. Since I play upright and ABG I could argue no one needs tone controls.
Without getting global we get in a lot of trouble when we tell people they don’t need something.
What would boost the level of my Ashbory but actives?
I love my P which has rather primitive tone controls. Yet musically a bouteeqee with an AG pre (copy of Musicman) makes a roar through some amps, into the passive input, that sound quite timid with a Fender. I like that I can dial up huge bloomy bass if I want to. Musically it’s completely appropriate. I’ve played in bands where a passive P would slot above the drums and B3. I’ve played in others where I was the only low end below the drummer with two guitars & vocals way above. We sounded meh when I brought passive basses. The honeys filled the dance floor when the booteequee was unveiled.
So leave it to me to determine if it’s acoustically or musically necessary.

 

[Kevin Colt]

all my basses are passive with the exception of the new 6 string I just bought and I think I will change that to passive also. every experience I've had with active electronics involves a battery that dies at the worst possible moment without a bypass switch. yeah yeah yeah...I know, change the battery before every gig, sometimes even a new battery isn't new. it's like learning where the dead spot is on that wireless right in the middle of the song at a live performance, an obnoxious static.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Er. Y'all realize active basses don't mean more level, right? A well set up active bass should have the same level as a passive instrument. I currently own 2 passive and 4 active basses and had a few more preamps on a shelf...they're all 0db...meaning I can switch from passive to active with no increased level or volume.

Sometimes it can nominally be the same level but some preamps have a baked in sound which is psychoacoustically louder.

 

[DigitalMan]

As a veteran electronics expert and designer of guitars, amplifiers, PAs, etc, I can speak with authority on this subject. The bottom line is simply this. There is virtually NO - repeat NO - electronic or musical advantage to locating any electronic processing on board the guitar. The best place for all electronics is in the amp/preamp housing wherever it is. However, if you would rather try to adjust your tone settings from the guitar, with knobs and switches that are hard to see, than on an amplifier panel where they are clearly visible, then knock yourself out. But how can you argue with the fact that the majority of the world's best playing was done on records using the well known classic basses with totally passive electronics.

Usually people are expected to wait until their 5th post before making an appeal to authority around here.

 

[somebrains]

Then there’s your G&L L-1000 that sounds feels and punches like it’s active.
Look ma no batts.

Okay to way above, I so disagree. The controls on an amp are for adjusting your dealeo to the room acoustics. The ones in your bass are for your tone. Since I play upright and ABG I could argue no one needs tone controls.
So leave it to me to determine if it’s acoustically or musically necessary.

Getting past fiddling with individual gear for self enjoyment or technical competence and getting on to playing for an audience can be an issue.

I count 6 years in public school band as just run up time to be able to hear the whole band rather than focus on myself getting thru a sheet. Whether it’s a high school gym, holiday concert in a church, football game, pitting for drama class you learned a lot dealing with that moment. That’s not even playing out for fun or chicks.

Your parents don’t talk over you, so dive bars and random shut down movie theaters are an additional layer to play over.

I never geeked out over gear at shows, it was more listening to criticism or fixes from other guys that would add or subtract from my signal chain. It was more like if we played a certain bar with a $1 drink night on thursdays always bring a solid state head + bass with emgs bc that place was notorious for being noisy. If we played a shutdown theater or union hall then you needed 810s bc the PAs were junk and you treated those high ceiling rectangles like a reflective outdoor gig.

I do have a stupid hot passive J5, but it’s just stupid hot.
It’s not the 1 thing that’s going to help me play kid friendly rock covers in the park with my buddies over 4th of July.
There’s a pile of situational garbage I leave in various places that I’ll jigsaw together when I need it.

 

[DonP]

By reading through the posts it's certainly easy to see the reasoning for each side of the subject.... when you believe in something, you can really lay out a firm rationale supporting it,.........till you change your mind (haha). I must be the 'loose goose' in this hunt for best choice. For me, after all these decades of playing, I'd say 80% of the time I go with passive,....BUT, the balance of the time I choose active. And it's always because I'm constantly searching for that 'best tone' or configuration. So, I don't let the subject cause me to overemotionalize, I just own a number of bass guitars I really like, and they all, but one, have active/passive capability. In the end, I can change my mind on the fly, and still come away satisfied. By the way, the latest bass I bought really puts meat on this situation..... it's a v7 Sire with an 18 volt preamp. It's great,...but I wouldn't marry it.. Everybody. ...play on, and enjoy it., please.
Duave P

 

[BurningSkies]

Usually people are expected to wait until their 5th post before making an appeal to authority around here.

So new that he doesn't know how many other authorities are appealing around here.

 

[Copperhead]

I have owned 3 active basses. Currently 1. Like (d) em fine.
Necessary ? Not for me. Mebbe for ju.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

As a veteran electronics expert and designer of guitars, amplifiers, PAs, etc, I can speak with authority on this subject. The bottom line is simply this. There is virtually NO - repeat NO - electronic or musical advantage to locating any electronic processing on board the guitar. The best place for all electronics is in the amp/preamp housing wherever it is. However, if you would rather try to adjust your tone settings from the guitar, with knobs and switches that are hard to see, than on an amplifier panel where they are clearly visible, then knock yourself out. But how can you argue with the fact that the majority of the world's best playing was done on records using the well known classic basses with totally passive electronics.

I won't claim to be an expert, but I am a nearly 20 year veteran professional electronics engineer and 30+ year veteran bass player who's built my share of instruments with all kinds of electronics configurations. I will say with certainty that I don't agree with your assessment. Plenty of instruments benefit from having active circuits on board. As for hard-to-see knobs and switches, you shouldn't need to see anything. Grab the knob you need and adjust till it sounds right.

The 10's of thousands of recordings done by guys like Nathan East, Lee Sklar, Neil Stubenhaus, Jimmy Johnson, Jimmy Haslip, Abe Laboriel, Will Lee, Bobby Vega, Louis Johnson, Marcus Miller, Tony Levin, and countless other session players would indicate that on-board active electronics in some form or another are very common place in the studio. Some of those players are full time active, some use active and passive, but all have made iconic albums with active electronics in their instruments.

FWIW, of 13 basses I currently own, all but one are passive. The one that is active is active for a very specific reason and it sounds phenomenal. It's one of my best recording basses and has been on quite a few albums over the last 10 years.

 

[Billybassbeater]

I'm beginning to notice more & more people saying they have stopped using their on board preamps,because they prefer the sound in passive mode. I have used numerous on board pre amps for many years but always end up switching them off & going passive. To my ears, I have yet to hear any benefit whatsoever over & above what my main amp EQ can achieve. IMO, they are an interesting gimmick & toy, which colors the sound & finer subtleties of good pickups & strings. They are a waste of money, which could be better spent on other parts of the signal chain. If you are not happy with the sound you are getting it's probably your amp, speakers,pickups or strings. I'm sorry to say this, as I sincerely do not wish to offend anyone who is of a sensitive nature but that
is what I hear & I also understand , that others can disagree.
I am interested in why they might be considered necessary ? Your thoughts, please.

I use my onboard preamp to change my tone for different songs. It's so much easier for me to add or back off what I need to change right there in between notes. Possibly a key factor for using active preamps is to run your amp flat. Maybe not, but that's what I do. Nobody has ever told me my "sound" sucked (lol), quite the opposite. I like 'em.