Are scoring differences between verses just bassists getting bored?

[micguy]

Also a help is find the original artist doing the song live and compare it to the studio version to see how much liberty they are taking against that studio version.

The term "liberty" implies that the studio version is some sort of reference, and the artist is seeing how much they can "get away with". Anyone who's ever done anything in their life more than once will (if they think about it) eventually come up with a better way of doing...whatever that thing is. The studio version is the start of the tune - that's what it was when it was an infant, hopefully with time it matures and gets refined.

I play church gigs. We're (in some ways) a cover band - except, of course when we're doing original material (I work with several folks who are songwriters). Anyway, if you listen to the live versions of worship tunes, they are often refined from the studio version - they use their experience and expertise to come up with ways of doing that tune that work better, or...fit the vibe better. I often play the same tune in multiple places, with different musicians on stage, and different things going on around us - audience, lights, tunes that ran before and after the one we're doing at the moment, and the topic of the message that's going to happen in a bit. Given all those variables, if I play the exact part that was "on the record", it's not the right thing to play most of the time - it doesn't fit what's going on around me most of the time.

When we do original material, there is a "record" as well, but sometimes the person that played the original bass part is on stage with me - playing guitar. He wants me to come up with a better part - he realizes I have more experience on bass than he does (he's half my age) , and appreciates what I come up with. The studio recording is a place to start, not the end in itself.

 

[Doug P]

In recording, I found doing the song over and over, until the producer said “is it your best or….” I just found something else to try and would keep the little different parts just to make it fun ?? Did they make the song better or… I didn’t know the others final take or how the song might shape out , but it gave the other instruments something to play against/with ??

 

[DJ Bebop]

The term "liberty" implies that the studio version is some sort of reference, and the artist is seeing how much they can "get away with". Anyone who's ever done anything in their life more than once will (if they think about it) eventually come up with a better way of doing...whatever that thing is. The studio version is the start of the tune - that's what it was when it was an infant, hopefully with time it matures and gets refined.

I play church gigs. We're (in some ways) a cover band - except, of course when we're doing original material (I work with several folks who are songwriters). Anyway, if you listen to the live versions of worship tunes, they are often refined from the studio version - they use their experience and expertise to come up with ways of doing that tune that work better, or...fit the vibe better. I often play the same tune in multiple places, with different musicians on stage, and different things going on around us - audience, lights, tunes that ran before and after the one we're doing at the moment, and the topic of the message that's going to happen in a bit. Given all those variables, if I play the exact part that was "on the record", it's not the right thing to play most of the time - it doesn't fit what's going on around me most of the time.

When we do original material, there is a "record" as well, but sometimes the person that played the original bass part is on stage with me - playing guitar. He wants me to come up with a better part - he realizes I have more experience on bass than he does (he's half my age) , and appreciates what I come up with. The studio recording is a place to start, not the end in itself.

It's been said James Jamerson never played the same thing twice and at times he had to listen to the released recording to see what he did, on that take that got released.

I used the term "liberty" because it seems the onlooker trying to learn the song, may think, that's the only way the song is to be perform as on that recording. By seeing what is done live one can see that it's not, even by the original artists.

Nothing wrong with learning it note for note for the knowledge.

 

[micguy]

James Jamerson never played the same thong twice

Are we on Talkbass, or did I end up on the wrong forum? ;-)

 

[DJ Bebop]

Are we on Talkbass, or did I end up on the wrong forum? ;-)

 

[micguy]

Well played - You nailed it. ;-)

 

[J Wilson]

I always noticed in my days listening and charting tunes to play in all the cover bands I was in, guys in a band often played things that a session bassist brought in for an artist would never do, and the session players' parts were always more steady and consistent than OG band members.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Well played - You nailed it. ;-)

It was a team effort.

 

[Topkat13]

Before changing any part of an original bass line I always make a point of checking with the local authorities.

 

[CTW68]

I wish we could ask Jamerson. He was the master of balancing repetition with variation.

 

[Doug4321]

A bass line should generally be repetitive so that it doesn’t distract too much from the singer (etc). But variable so it doesn’t sound like a broken record, too monotonous.

 

[Doug4321]

I was noticing this kind of thing on All Along the Watchtower.
Bass on Bob Dylan’s version is way too monotonous. Hendrix’s really nice and variable (kind of muddy and hard to hear clearly though).

 

[bassbrad]

There are many reasons for variations beyond boredom, laziness or mistakes. Bass lines like melody lines are developed and master players are able to convey emotion, humor or other concepts. Also many players are constantly exploring for nuances between the rhythm, harmony and melody. Those often subtle nuances are the things that make a bass or other part work, shine or not.
Learning those nuances is one thing but understanding why or what is behind those nuances should be your ultimate goal ~ that way you can unlock those secrets for your own playing.

 

[rtslinger]

What I do is I learn the changes and I may throw them in and I may not, sometimes I will add something at a different part of the song where they didn't and sometimes it depends if the sonic space is left open for them, meaning if the change takes you to some lower notes, but your keyboard player is already hover in the space you may have to leave it out of go up the neck instead of down Bass the thinking mans game

 

[zubrycky]

I may sound cruel saying that, but, IMHO, a bass player bored with a repetitive bass part is someone unable to concentrate.

Playing repetitive parts is an art.

 

[GretschWretch]

If the bass part is changing subtly, other parts likely are, too.

True, true, and true. A good example is Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone." Except for (arguably) missing the first change of the first chorus (going from C to D instead of C to F) which he does only once, Harvey Brooks's bass part varies very little, and then mostly in the IV-V-IV-V movement leading into the chorus.

Conversely, in the lead ins from chorus back to verse both piano and drums change things around wildly, and the piano does it in the verses as well.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I may sound cruel saying that, but, IMHO, a bass player bored with a repetitive bass part is someone unable to concentrate.

Playing repetitive parts is an art.

A bored bass player or any musician on stage - it’s a strong indication of two things:
(either)
1. There is a big internal conflict among the band’s members,
or
2. We have the most mediocre musicians on stage.

 

[LBS-bass]

There are many reasons for variations beyond boredom, laziness or mistakes. Bass lines like melody lines are developed and master players are able to convey emotion, humor or other concepts. Also many players are constantly exploring for nuances between the rhythm, harmony and melody. Those often subtle nuances are the things that make a bass or other part work, shine or not.
Learning those nuances is one thing but understanding why or what is behind those nuances should be your ultimate goal ~ that way you can unlock those secrets for your own playing.

Some playing is thoughtfully nuanced like this; some is just repetitive and I'd argue that a majority of popular music probably has little to no build in the way a lot of folks are describing. But it is important to understand the difference. If it's there you will feel it and you'll want to understand how and why the bass part is contributing to it. But if you're playing "Johnny B. Goode" the odds are you're not going to be challenged to recreate a lot of nuance.

That brings up an interesting point, however. If I were playing JBG in a band, I would absolutely switch up what I'm doing between the chorus and verse parts, and again under the solo, because even in the most repetitious music there needs to be demarcation between sections. It would be subtle- probably playing more quietly under the verse and a bit more raucously under the other two sections, perhaps changing to a bouncier feel under the solo, too.

So, even a song with limited structure will need something conveyed, though it may not be conveyed through note choices exclusively.

 

[Leonid Nidis]

I guess its creativity.
For the bassist who wrote it it's no chore.

Anyway if I'm not learning note to note I'm trying to capture the style of the bassist and ask myself what would he do,then play.

 

[SteveCS]

...
So, even a song with limited structure will need something conveyed, though it may not be conveyed through note choices exclusively.

It is quite remarkable how much variation and development and can be acheived through subtle changes in dynamics, articulation and values of existing notes.