Are the big amps history?

[shoot-r]

"Are the big amps history?"

Maybe so, but we all know that, for better or worse, history has a way of repeating itself.

And for me history repeated it's self at last night's open air, outside, no boundary support, HUGE crowd, job.
Did have FOH.

Years back I'd usually drag around two 810 cabinets, it was a glorious sound!

Ten or so years ago I went with the trend, smaller rig, to smallest rig, to trying the no rig and using floor monitors, to IEM's.
Sorry kids....tiny amps or floor monitors wasn't what my ears wanted to hear, it's not even close.

Recently went back to a larger cabinet by today's standards, a Bergantino NV610.
It's plenty for most jobs, except outdoor, large stages, with a loud backline.
My ears wanted just alittle more.

So for last night's gig I added my two, 210, vertical 410 stack along with the NV610.

A Mesa M-6 Carbine amp switched to 2 ohms driving (TEN) 10" drivers.
Wow....I'd forgotten what clarity and power, with heft to each note with a absolutely stage filling sound was all about.
Walked off that job with a goofy smile that I'm still wearing!

This old, fat man doesn't really want to drag around three cabinets....but I'm gonna....There really is no replacement for displacement.




....

 

[cflat]

This is something I see with a heck of a lot of newbs. And never mind the vocals...it's all about the bass drum! We get occasional kids at the Villages who are out of Full Sail, and that's what they do. They just turn the rest of the stuff up enough to hear it (sometimes), then they work on the bass drum and don't do anything else till it's perfect. I hear it changing in the house every time. The guys that have been there for a few months, though...they're much better about it because they've got an old guy in charge re-educating them about how to mix old people's rock and roll

Hahaha,,,old people's..yup

 

[cflat]

And for me history repeated it's self at last night's open air, outside, no boundary support, HUGE crowd, job.
Did have FOH.

Years back I'd usually drag around two 810 cabinets, it was a glorious sound!

Ten or so years ago I went with the trend, smaller rig, to smallest rig, to trying the no rig and using floor monitors, to IEM's.
Sorry kids....tiny amps or floor monitors wasn't what my ears wanted to hear, it's not even close.

Recently went back to a larger cabinet by today's standards, a Bergantino NV610.
It's plenty for most jobs, except outdoor, large stages, with a loud backline.
My ears wanted just alittle more.

So for last night's gig I added my two, 210, vertical 410 stack along with the NV610.

A Mesa M-6 Carbine amp switched to 2 ohms driving (TEN) 10" drivers.
Wow....I'd forgotten what clarity and power, with heft to each note with a absolutely stage filling sound was all about.
Walked off that job with a goofy smile that I'm still wearing!

This old, fat man doesn't really want to drag around three cabinets....but I'm gonna....There really is no replacement for displacement.




....

It's all about moving the air //

 

[cflat]

I'm right there with you AgedHorse! Sure, once in a very great while I run into "training day" for a new FOH engineer. However, on almost all of my gigs over the last 15 years, a period neatly corresponding to when I stopped using an amp on stage on a regular basis, I've found the engineer is at least as professional and well-trained at their job as the musicians on stage are at what they do. I seldom have complaints about the quality of the sound either on stage or in the house.

Which raises a fascinating point. The path of this thread was virtually pre-ordained. The pros and cons from the proponents of big iron and those preferring either no amp or a small amp start with reason. Reason gave way to passion some time ago, with the ampless folks electing to move on to other topics. Looking over the past few pages, the thread has become a thinly-veiled rant against the house engineers. The fascinating point, if one takes an objective step back, is the rant against the engineers is waged by the proponents of heavy iron. The ampless and small amp folks haven't chimed in at anywhere near the fervor. With a modicum of objective ratiocination one might conclude the proponents of large stage amps are experiencing poor quality sound on stage, and in the house (which complaints tend to lack credibility as the pro-iron camp tends to shun wireless connections), precisely because of their impassioned insistence upon using a large amp. It's merely an observation...

...and a very clever observation at that. To avoid stirring the **** pile needlessly, (now that 'that' has been figured out), best to drop this topic like a hot potato.

 

[cflat]

I use an SVT and have had no problems with sound engineers, in fact most of the ones I've met loved them and were used to them, 20 years ago? No, engineers hated them but nowadays they seems to realize that they are by far the best sounding bass amp out there and not the loudest by a long stretch anymore. I think maybe the premise of this thread that the big amps are history has been heartily disproved in this thread and perhaps has had a bigger impact on all the small amp proponents leaving this thread than any other reason. I mean why stay and fight a losing battle?

Its not a losing battle, the usage of physically small amps by the vast majority of working bassists, far outstrips the SVT now.

There is so much snobbbery about amplification and how people love to stand in front of a big valve stack but at the end of the day, the reality is, you can buy a quality valve pedal pump it out through a decent front of house system, and you will still sound awesome

haha..absolute fact..

 

[JimmyM]

Its not a losing battle, the usage of physically small amps by the vast majority of working bassists, far outstrips the SVT now.

So what? As long as pro bassists with high profiles continue to use them, so will weekenders and working pros. Nobody has ever said the SVT outsells them all and more working pros and weekenders use one than anything. That would be ridiculous to claim. But it's far from dead.

 

[cflat]

So what? As long as pro bassists with high profiles continue to use them, so will weekenders and working pros. Nobody has ever said the SVT outsells them all and more working pros and weekenders use one than anything. That would be ridiculous to claim. But it's far from dead.

Dont get your dander up Jimmy my friend...just because you got a house full of stuff I cant afford. and I think "more working pros and weekenders use one than anything" is a very tall statement. Not that any of this matters in the cosmos whatsoever.

 

[B-line]

Dont get your dander up Jimmy my friend...just because you got a house full of stuff I cant afford. and I think "more working pros and weekenders use one than anything" is a very tall statement. Not that any of this matters in the cosmos whatsoever.

The Cosmos just called- It matters. They demand an SVT as back line..

 

[Manticore]

The Cosmos just called- It matters. They demand an SVT as back line..

I've found those venues providing a back line usually supply the bass with an SVT. Sometimes the back line includes a Bassman rig, and once in a great while either a GK or SWR. What I find interesting is the DI to the house is taken prior to going into the amp; the amp is only used for stage monitoring. To keep from stirring the pot further I'd recommend using whatever makes you comfortable and don't mind schlepping around. The point is that in my experience the rig on stages of any size has little to do with how you will sound in the house.

 

[Son of Wobble]

View attachment 1180596

The Cosmos just called- It matters. They demand an SVT as back line..

Scientists now believe that an SVT cannot be destroyed even by dropping it into a black hole.

 

[B-line]

I've found those venues providing a back line usually supply the bass with an SVT. Sometimes the back line includes a Bassman rig, and once in a great while either a GK or SWR. What I find interesting is the DI to the house is taken prior to going into the amp; the amp is only used for stage monitoring. To keep from stirring the pot further I'd recommend using whatever makes you comfortable and don't mind schlepping around. The point is that in my experience the rig on stages of any size has little to do with how you will sound in the house.

Still... The Cosmo's RIDER asks for the big Ampeg rig!



Edit:

The rig you use on-stage may not be the eq the house hears, but- the player will be pushed (at least I am) by what I am hearing and feeling right near me, from what I've chosen to plug into, as well as what is fed back thru the wedges. So, yeah I think the rig used on stage has quite a bit to do with the end result.

 

[B-line]

Scientists now believe that an SVT cannot be destroyed even by dropping it into a black hole.

But the FOH Engineer MIGHT be able to destroy the DI to the House!!!

 

[Son of Wobble]

Still... The Cosmo's RIDER asks for the big Ampeg rig!

"God does not play dice, nor SWR."

-- A. Einstein

 

[B-line]

"God does not play dice, nor SWR."

-- A. Einstein

HE (or SHE) is still on the fence as to Rickenbacker....

 

[bobyoung53]

Dont get your dander up Jimmy my friend...just because you got a house full of stuff I cant afford. and I think "more working pros and weekenders use one than anything" is a very tall statement. Not that any of this matters in the cosmos whatsoever.

You missed the beginning of the sentence: "Nobody has ever said (that) the SVT outsells them all and more working pros and weekenders use one than anything."

 

[B-line]

You missed the beginning of the sentence: "Nobody has ever said (that) the SVT outsells them all and more working pros and weekenders use one than anything."

I SPY:

That MANY responses often miss the 1st, 2nd, or even last sentences from an OP's "quote"

 

[bobyoung53]

There is so much snobbbery about amplification and how people love to stand in front of a big valve stack but at the end of the day, the reality is, you can buy a quality valve pedal pump it out through a decent front of house system, and you will still sound awesome

Who stands out in front the house system? Certainly not me, I use a big tube amp because I like them and they sound great, and i play better when my bass sounds the way I want it to sound, no other reason. The stage is my domain the house is the sound man's, don't tell me what to do on my stage and i won't tell you what to do for the house, that being said I am always cognizant of how sound engineers' feel about my stage volume, why? Because I ask them, how's it sound? How is my volume? A little courtesy goes a long way with band mates and engineers.

 

[bluesblaster]

Scientists now believe that an SVT cannot be destroyed even by dropping it into a black hole.

wow, now that's cosmic

 

[B-line]

Who stands out in front the house system? Certainly not me, I use a big tube amp because I like them and they sound great, and i play better when my bass sounds the way I want it to sound, no other reason. The stage is my domain the house is the sound man's, don't tell me what to do on my stage and i won't tell you what to do for the house, that being said I am always cognizant of how sound engineers' feel about my stage volume, why? Because I ask them, how's it sound? How is my volume? A little courtesy goes a long way with band mates and engineers.

...For when the "Like" button is not enough!

 

[JimmyM]

Who stands out in front the house system? Certainly not me, I use a big tube amp because I like them and they sound great, and i play better when my bass sounds the way I want it to sound, no other reason. The stage is my domain the house is the sound man's, don't tell me what to do on my stage and i won't tell you what to do for the house.

I will! I rule my gigs with an iron hand of doom!

Well, actually I don't...I just bring a bunch of outboard stuff that forces them to make the bass sound like what I want