Are the big amps history?

[mesaplayer83]

I too am running sound for my band from behind the kit with a QSC Touchmix. We've pretty much got most of the clubs we play dialed in but there is still a need for someone to adjust levels for lead vox and backing vox, etc. So whenever possible we'll have a tech with an iPad adjusting levels appropriately but it's always better when this person knows the art of FOH sound and it's really nice when the club has a good PA and FOH/Monitor engineers but those are few and far between.
I do understand your point about importance of sound engineers not being as high as the players especially the singers so I'll admit to overselling my opinion there but I still think a good sound person is worth the cost, IME.

It's also harder for a drummer to play and run sound than it is for a bassist, guitarist, or singer to do it, IME/IMO...

 

[B-line]

Believe me, I prefer to "just play" instead of pulling double duty... I've been at it for a while now, and know all the good sound techs in my area - and have an excellent working relationship with all of them...

I've been working locally long enough in the (2) major Casino Chains here to get to know the Sound Techs, most all I've dealt with are solid pro's and easy to work with. Some of the smaller & independent Casinos; well let's just say it varies.

I have nothing but a layman's knowledge of the board, if that, & only know how to mix a drink, so the best thing I've learned is to tell them what I'm after tone-wise ("Phat, Funky, defined- Bass locked in w/ kick-drum and registering a complimentary mid-range w/ keys and sometimes guitar). They get it, hopefully, and after recurring engagements, it's almost default setting up.

Now on the road-that was different- I did my first "Festival" type outdoor gig for 1,000's and was quite overwhelmed, but the peeps there knew exactly what they were doing, plus the B/L was a total pro.

Some clubs had awesome systems and cool engineers, and of course- some had pretentious SOB's who had their noses in the air- "I used to be second-to-under-assistant Sound Engineer on the Eagles tour in 1986" or whatever!

No matter- I'm the Bassplayer, I want to be heard & felt, and see those booties move when we play.
I'm grateful to the guys who try & get me there- I can't do it!

 

[DWkit]

It's also harder for a drummer to play and run sound than it is for a bassist, guitarist, or singer to do it, IME/IMO...

No doubt. I spend some of the night playing with one hand while trying to satisfy the lead singer's (MORE ME) thirst for ear piercing wedge levels. If there was ever a candidate for in ears, it's that guy! I'd love to go back to just playing and leave sound to the guys that have the great ear for it.

 

[mesaplayer83]

I've been working locally long enough in the (2) major Casino Chains here to get to know the Sound Techs, most all I've dealt with are solid pro's and easy to work with. Some of the smaller & independent Casinos; well let's just say it varies.

I have nothing but a layman's knowledge of the board, if that, & only know how to mix a drink, so the best thing I've learned is to tell them what I'm after tone-wise ("Phat, Funky, defined- Bass locked in w/ kick-drum and registering a complimentary mid-range w/ keys and sometimes guitar). They get it, hopefully, and after recurring engagements, it's almost default setting up.

Now on the road-that was different- I did my first "Festival" type outdoor gig for 1,000's and was quite overwhelmed, but the peeps there knew exactly what they were doing, plus the B/L was a total pro.

Some clubs had awesome systems and cool engineers, and of course- some had pretentious SOB's who had their noses in the air- "I used to be second-to-under-assistant Sound Engineer on the Eagles tour in 1986" or whatever!

No matter- I'm the Bassplayer, I want to be heard & felt, and see those booties move when we play.
I'd grateful to the guys who try & get me there- I can't do it!

Yeah, I also play the casinos in my area, outdoor fests, and everything else from the bigger halls to neighborhood bars - it always seems the better soundmen are the easiest to get along with, too... If I'm meeting one for the first time, I tell them that I'm the default soundman for my band when there isn't one, that I'm giving them a pre-EQ send from a high quality DI, and for them to let me know if I can help in any way... I typically bring enough bass rig so that I only need my vocals and maybe a little keys or acoustic guitar in my monitor - and don't play any louder than I have to... Usually, we hit it off right from the start - especially since I typically play P basses that sound good thru a pre-EQ DI...

 

[B-line]

Yeah, I also play the casinos in my area, outdoor fests, and everything else from the bigger halls to neighborhood bars - it always seems the better soundmen are the easiest to get along with, too... If I'm meeting one for the first time, I tell them that I'm the default soundman for my band when there isn't one, that I'm giving them a pre-EQ send from a high quality DI, and for them to let me know if I can help in any way... I typically bring enough bass rig so that I only need my vocals and maybe a little keys or acoustic guitar in my monitor - and don't play any louder than I have to... Usually, we hit it off right from the start - especially since I typically play P basses that sound good thru a pre-EQ DI...

RESPECT!
...and a Precision Bass will go a long way with a lot of Sound guys!

 

[mesaplayer83]

RESPECT!
...and a Precision Bass will go a long way with a lot of Sound guys!

Yup - never had a soundman complain about one, lol - although one of the best in my area LOVES Jazz basses, and can make them sound great out front - so when I know I'm going to be working with him, I usually bring one with me... I prefer the P bass, but don't mind playing a good Jazz, either....

 

[B-line]

Yup - never had a soundman complain about one, lol - although one of the best in my area LOVES Jazz basses, and can make them sound great out front - so when I know I'm going to be working with him, I usually bring one with me... I prefer the P bass, but don't mind playing a good Jazz, either....

I use quite a few different basses locally, P's & J's, Soapbars, a Bongo HH, etc. I have that luxury.
When I traveled, I took my P-Bass.

Many sound men have of course evolved, & understand what pre-amps & such offer. But there are throwbacks!

I had to keep from laughing when one FOH engineer started ranting about a bassist who brought his rack set-up and used a bass that he described looking like this:

Now here on TB, we're Bass Players AND gearheads; we know wassup.

But we have to remind ourselves, that even among sound pro's the Bass is very back in the mix, not as important as the Star Vocalist, or even the shredding guitarist! Of course I generalize! And I actually felt insulted and short-shrifted at times, because some guys seemed to think all I was going to do is play like a hair-band guy (no offense to hair band guys) and stay on the open E- string all night!
And drums!! I've learned to take a long lunch break when they hook up w/ the drummer & begin mic'ing the kit.
To this day, that is a necessary evil but a thorn in my side!

Ah show biz! I wonder if I can still enroll in dog-grooming school??

 

[agedhorse]

And most of the time the sound tech is all about getting the drums and vocals right and to hell with the rest.

Then you need to work with a better class of sound tech. This is not at all true in the pro world.

 

[JimmyM]

Then you need to work with a better class of sound tech. This is not at all true in the pro world.

This is something I see with a heck of a lot of newbs. And never mind the vocals...it's all about the bass drum! We get occasional kids at the Villages who are out of Full Sail, and that's what they do. They just turn the rest of the stuff up enough to hear it (sometimes), then they work on the bass drum and don't do anything else till it's perfect. I hear it changing in the house every time. The guys that have been there for a few months, though...they're much better about it because they've got an old guy in charge re-educating them about how to mix old people's rock and roll

 

[mesaplayer83]

This is something I see with a heck of a lot of newbs. And never mind the vocals...it's all about the bass drum! We get occasional kids at the Villages who are out of Full Sail, and that's what they do. They just turn the rest of the stuff up enough to hear it (sometimes), then they work on the bass drum and don't do anything else till it's perfect. I hear it changing in the house every time. The guys that have been there for a few months, though...they're much better about it because they've got an old guy in charge re-educating them about how to mix old people's rock and roll

Yup - and even worse yet is when they insist on having the kick drum thump the crap out of the stage also, thru the over-sized drum "monitor" they're so proud of - totally kills any chance of getting a decent stage mix...

 

[GreyBeard]

Yup - and even worse yet is when they insist on having the kick drum thump the crap out of the stage also, thru the over-sized drum "monitor" they're so proud of - totally kills any chance of getting a decent stage mix...

I call those guys "kick drum junkies".
Kinda of like the guitar players who suffers from "creeping use lo FX". They keep adding more and more FX until you can't hear the guitar for the FX.

 

[GreyBeard]

Then you need to work with a better class of sound tech. This is not at all true in the pro world.

Here in WV, beggars can't be choosers.................

 

[bobyoung53]

I call those guys "kick drum junkies".
Kinda of like the guitar players who suffers from "creeping use lo FX". They keep adding more and more FX until you can't hear the guitar for the FX.

Yup, I don't think it's as common as it once was though, I remember a concert in which the kick drum was so loud compared to everything else, it was sickening and this was just your average rock band where it sounded totally inappropriate, the bass was a low down indistinct thud which is still common.

 

[mesaplayer83]

I call those guys "kick drum junkies".
Kinda of like the guitar players who suffers from "creeping use lo FX". They keep adding more and more FX until you can't hear the guitar for the FX.

Exactly

 

[bucephylus]

This is something I see with a heck of a lot of newbs. And never mind the vocals...it's all about the bass drum! We get occasional kids at the Villages who are out of Full Sail, and that's what they do. They just turn the rest of the stuff up enough to hear it (sometimes), then they work on the bass drum and don't do anything else till it's perfect. I hear it changing in the house every time. The guys that have been there for a few months, though...they're much better about it because they've got an old guy in charge re-educating them about how to mix old people's rock and roll

+1 people tend to listen with their mis-informed prejudices. I run into this ALL the time. The obsession with the kick drum is particularly hilarious because it destroys the back beat ensuring that the band won't swing. AT ALL.

It is an odd dichotomy that musicians work terribly hard on faithfully learning the originally recorded parts and dynamics; but the structure of the mix is often tossed out the window at the downbeat.

 

[aborgman]

Then you need to work with a better class of sound tech. This is not at all true in the pro world.

Could have fooled me based on most of the big concerts I've attended in the last 10 years...

 

[GreyBeard]

the bass was a low down indistinct thud which is still common.

I would much rather watch a live concert on a big screen TV with a good sound system. The sound balance is always so much better. Big concert I've attended outside of Paul Simon, the bass was "low down indistinct thud" I had to strain my ears to hear any bass most of the time.

 

[mesaplayer83]

+1 people tend to listen with their mis-informed prejudices. I run into this ALL the time. The obsession with the kick drum is particularly hilarious because it destroys the back beat ensuring that the band won't swing. AT ALL.

It is an odd dichotomy that musicians work terribly hard on faithfully learning the originally recorded parts and dynamics; but the structure of the mix is often tossed out the window at the downbeat.

So true

 

[agedhorse]

Could have fooled me based on most of the big concerts I've attended in the last 10 years...

Not the ones I worked on, for the most part the FOH guys were all pretty darn good.

 

[Joe Ty]

I would much rather watch a live concert on a big screen TV with a good sound system. The sound balance is always so much better. Big concert I've attended outside of Paul Simon, the bass was "low down indistinct thud" I had to strain my ears to hear any bass most of the time.

In all fairness, unless you have great seats, you are a lot closer to the sound source. Same with a bar band vs a stadium act. Pretty easy to blame the sound engineer but filling a 20,000 seat arena with the appropriate volume at every wave length to every seat in the house has to be very difficult.