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Are two 12 as loud as four 10's?

Do you think two 12's are louder then four 10's?

  • Yes 12 are louder

    Votes: 26 21.3%

  • No four 10's are louder

    Votes: 83 68.0%

  • Don't care for ether

    Votes: 13 10.7%
  • Total voters
    122
#21
I thought I read somewhere on TB that a 3db increase actually doubles volume, therefore making the 410 50% louder than a 212, all other things being equal.

Have to admit I don't know a lot about the subject, so am hoping that someone more in the know can confirm\deny this...
 
#22
heyyyy
you are right to a point !!!

the ear hears in 3 db increments!! SOoooooooooooooo if you have an amp rated at 600 watts a 3db change means double the power. So you need a 1200 watt amp to hear a minimal change!!! the good way to get volume is to add more speakers (move more air). this is why you see so many speakers at concerts and stuff hope this helps

bill
 
#23
After making my last comment I did a few searches regarding decibels and volume, and from what I found 10 db's is what's perceived as a doubling of volume. 3db is just the minimum that an average human ear can differentiate between.

Edit: damn, beaten by alexgeddy, guess we're even, ;)
 
#24
4x10's typically, although like everyone has said, you gotta factor in efficiency, volume, and all that junk.

Here's an interesting thought, which speaker will "throw" the sound further? For example, you've got a 4x10 and a 2x12 on an outdoor stage. Which cabinet will sound louder at 10 ft, 20 ft, 30 ft, ...100 ft, etc.?
 
#26
NKUSigEp said:
4x10's typically, although like everyone has said, you gotta factor in efficiency, volume, and all that junk.

Here's an interesting thought, which speaker will "throw" the sound further? For example, you've got a 4x10 and a 2x12 on an outdoor stage. Which cabinet will sound louder at 10 ft, 20 ft, 30 ft, ...100 ft, etc.?
Click to expand...

I don't think there's a single answer to this question. In addition to the size, type or number of drivers, I believe this is where cabinet design itself comes more into play as well regarding "throw." Number and type of drivers being equal in a given cab, the main factors affecting cabinet throw are its internal volume and porting, and their relationship to each other. Cabinet design becomes especially significant when your talking about the relative throw at various distances.
 
#28
Falcynn said:
I didn't know about that formula for calculating speaker area, but if that's right then the surface areas for the following speaker set ups would be...

1x10= 78
2x10= 156
4x10= 312
1x12= 113
2x12= 226
1x15= 176
2x15= 352

(I did all these since I was genuinely curious)

So the 4x10 has very roughly about 50% more speaker area than the 2x12. So if I'm correct in thinking this (which I'm probably not since I'm tired) then that should only result in a 1.5 db increase (since doubling the surface area of the speakers results in a 3db increase I believe) which is hardly noticeable.

Also to anyone who may know the answer to this (probably dinghy), is the result of the surface area in square inches or?
Click to expand...
I'll assume you're calcs in sq in are correct as I can't be bothered to convert. Metric it's 350cm^2 and 530cm^2 for the 10 and 12 respectively, based upon average datasheet figures for Sd. So 4 tens are about 1400cm^2 area and 2 twelves 1060 cm^2.

Now it's not the cone area specifically that determines max potential SPL, but the volume of air displaced, so the Xmax of the drivers is the other thing to consider (area x Xmax). Tens usually have a higher resonant frequency than twelves for the same efficiency.

Based on Sd alone, so assuming the same Xmax 10log(1400/1060) is 1.2dB between the two types of design. To be specific, you'd need to know the actual drivers and their specs, as well as what frequency you want to know at, to determine which enclosure would be louder for a given power input.

Edit: Here's a chart relating the volume displacement to the acoustic power, SPL and frequency. Doesn't really matter how you get the air movement, ie cones, ports or passive radiators.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=41675&d=1158142400
 
#29
Last point: the post above relates to how you determine the loudness technically. However perceived loudness may vary for different people, cabs and amps in different circumstances.
 
#30
Here's an interesting thought, which speaker will "throw" the sound further? For example, you've got a 4x10 and a 2x12 on an outdoor stage. Which cabinet will sound louder at 10 ft, 20 ft, 30 ft, ...100 ft, etc.?[/QUOTE]

That is an interesting question. I would think the the 12's would throw the sound further because its producing a larger sound wave which would travel further.
 
#31
alexgeddy said:
Heyyyy,

let's just get the right cab ..not worry about DBs ... the human ear can't hear the diference betweeen 1.5DB.....get him playin!!!!!!!!!!


bill
Click to expand...

I already bought the cabs. I had two Aguilar 1x12 and returned them for two 2x10 cabs. That is the reason for my post. It seems the four 10's put out more volume in a real would situation.
 
#33
As A9X says, what needs to be considered is the actual area of the speakers, and the numbers he supplies are indicative. Then you need to multiply that by their IN-AND-OUT excursion - xmax - to get the amount of air they can displace. And then take into account their sensitivity.

After that you can think about the effect of power compression. As the voice coils heat up from heavier use the drivers become less able to convert electical energy into acoustical energy.
 
#34
HMZ said:
I already bought the cabs. I had two Aguilar 1x12 and returned them for two 2x10 cabs. That is the reason for my post. It seems the four 10's put out more volume in a real would situation.
Click to expand...


In addition to the previous posts on the general physics involved in all of this, the GS and DB lines of Aguilar speakers are, as you know, voiced much differently. The more mid-range present voicing of the DB line would make those cabs (10's or 12's) seem louder than their GS counterpart.

I don't think there is a general rule as to 410's versus 212's... depends on voicing, SPL, etc. etc.
 
#35
alexgeddy said:
... the human ear can't hear the diference betweeen 1.5DB.....
Click to expand...

Actually that would be 1 deciBel, at least it was so believed in earlier research. But it's been established that at suitable levels for broadband program material or in the midrange especially where Fletcher-Munson hearing sensitivity is not a concern, that 0.5 dB differences are not outside of many people's ability to hear.
 
#36
Alexander said:
I thought I read somewhere on TB that a 3db increase actually doubles volume
Click to expand...

For players 3dB is best equated to the gain you get from doubling the amount of identical speakers/drivers if the input wattage stays the same. So, in other words, 3dB is the difference between

a 210 and a 410
or a 210 and TWO 210
or a 410 and a 810

If the drivers and cab alignments per driver are identical and the same input wattage is applied.

10 dB is equated with the perception that volume is twice (or half) as loud.
 
#39
ibz said:
Wow, there's so much garbage info tied in to the factual info in in this thread.

I wonder how newer players are supposed to even sort through what's really what without being wholly confused.
Click to expand...

Yeah. It means those who are a little more imbued with Actual Knowledge™ are supposed to watchguard each and every topic regardless of what the title indicates. And each time one gets carpal tunnel another must step in and take his place. It's an overwhelming responsibility and impacts one's physical well-being and ultimately their bass playing ; }
 
#40
greenboy said:
Yeah. It means those who are a little more imbued with Actual Knowledge™ are supposed to watchguard each and every topic regardless of what the title indicates. And each time one gets carpal tunnel another must step in and take his place. It's an overwhelming responsibility and impacts one's physical well-being and ultimately their bass playing ; }
Click to expand...
LMAO
So true.
 

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