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Are we going down the crapper?

#21
I would say yes, we are. The greats are dying and nothing of substance is replacing them in the cultural consciousness. There are thousands of artists on the level of Miles Davis, or Bob Dylan, or Jimi Hendrix, or Ray Charles.. but no one knows about them, because no one in the media is willing to take a chance on them and try to market them. All that matters is what is PROVEN to turn a profit... culture be damned.

We no longer have our own culture... all we have is what the mass media corporations sell to us. Oh man, don't even get me started on this topic!!!

But does it even matter? It will be a miracle if our species survives the next century. Some are calling the 21st century "humanity's final exam". The 20th century was the most violent in human history, and four years into the 21st, that trend doesn't seem to show any sign of slowing down. Between the problems of global climate change, terrorism, corrupt governments, giant corporations seemingly bent on owning our souls and competing with nations for power and resources... cultural decay is just one of MANY problems. Maybe it's more a symptom than a problem. good luck to our species, we're gonna need it.
 
#22
I see good stuff and people every day, good stuff coming.

For all the publicity about the rapists, the exploiters, the
criminals, the users, the manipulators, ther are a thousand
or more stories never told about people who volunteer, or
help or sympathize or organize and donate.

Feeling bad and frustrated about what is going on?

Great!

Get up off your farkin ass and donate some of your time to
the food bank, or cancer, or MS, or helping people or your
church, or whatever moves you.

Stop complaining it ain't working, you need to make it work.
Don't think OTHERS are going to help.

I take more pride in what I do for others, than anything else I
do. But that is just me, I am a proud man, and I need
to justify that pride. I try to help all the time.

Have you noticed, that whenever you try to raise money for food,
that wealthy people are the last to donate.

As a Scout leader, I noticed that the people who could afford
food donations the least, gave the most. Consistently.

Cultural wasteland?

Only if you invest your soul in the media.

There is lots of culture out there, big media makes
it harder to find.

Big media will be our biggest hurdle as humanists as time
goes on.

I cannot emphasize how important it is for musicians to
liason with, and support, alternative music outlets now, and in the future.
 
#24
Brendan said:
Hey man, Timewave Zero. We're getting close to Dec. 21, 2012, don'tcha know.

Seems about right to me.
Click to expand...

:confused: Elaborate.

Anyway, yes, I think America is going down the crapper. It's all about money, money, and more money these days. I just hope I'll have a decent job and can support a future family well and that I'll be dead before the toilet is finally flushed.
 
#25
MacheteJames said:
I would say yes, we are. The greats are dying and nothing of substance is replacing them in the cultural consciousness. There are thousands of artists on the level of Miles Davis, or Bob Dylan, or Jimi Hendrix, or Ray Charles.. but no one knows about them, because no one in the media is willing to take a chance on them and try to market them. All that matters is what is PROVEN to turn a profit... culture be damned.

We no longer have our own culture... all we have is what the mass media corporations sell to us. Oh man, don't even get me started on this topic!!!

But does it even matter? It will be a miracle if our species survives the next century. Some are calling the 21st century "humanity's final exam". The 20th century was the most violent in human history, and four years into the 21st, that trend doesn't seem to show any sign of slowing down. Between the problems of global climate change, terrorism, corrupt governments, giant corporations seemingly bent on owning our souls and competing with nations for power and resources... cultural decay is just one of MANY problems. Maybe it's more a symptom than a problem. good luck to our species, we're gonna need it.
Click to expand...
Dont make this political or it'll be shut down.
 
#26
Sonorous said:
:confused: Elaborate.

Anyway, yes, I think America is going down the crapper. It's all about money, money, and more money these days. I just hope I'll have a decent job and can support a future family well and that I'll be dead before the toilet is finally flushed.
Click to expand...

A crackpot theory by a fairly crackpot philosopher/scientist by the name of Terrence McKenna.
 
#27
Finger Blister said:
Your acting as if there ever has been a historic continuity of High Culture.

Never has been.

Except for brief interludes of 'life imatnating art:
artists reflecting/defining the culture and raising the conscious of society.

The same 'Culturial Wasteland' argument was made by Newton N. Minow, FCC chairman in 1961 regarding TV as a Vast Culturial Wasteland.
The idea is old as well.

Culturial Change is Rooted in Culturial Crisis.
The antecedents of Artistic Revolution always exists just under the surface;
it takes a monumental crisis of identity to tap into it.

The reason there is a lack of innovation, is because there is a lack of Culturial Conflict.
Click to expand...

IMO this post is should be put in the top ten for most intelligent and discussion ending opinions I have ever read on TB. Bravo! :bassist:

Now here's the rest of the story: Keep your eyes and ears open during the next 10 years. There is the "mother" of all Cultural Conflicts looming on the horizon and it's going to shame any "crisis of identity" this world has ever experienced since the Crusades.

Mark it down
 
#30
One has to ask the question- is there any historical precedent for what is happening now?

In regards to the 'big business, people only concerned about money,' yes, there is. Look a hundred or so years ago, at the captains of industry. They exploited workers for the labor that they needed. Now, what came out of the worker's exploitation? Labor standards! Of course, it took some time, but it happened nonetheless. I am very confident that the same thing will happen with the big businessmen execs exploiting their stock holders. There will be government regulations- more than there are now, anyway- on this within twnety years or so.

I think that most of the 'moral degradation' and 'downfall of humanity' is being preached by a very few people who just happen to speak very loudly. I think these people have got enough around them scared into thinking the same thing to make a big commotion over it. In reality, I would say that the problems aren't really that huge.

In regards to the thought that all of our important figures are dying and not being replaced- I believe they cited musicians, all from 1940-1960- this is how things go. Before all the musicians that were cited, when was the last huge figure like those listed? It had been a while. Things like that go in cycles- but because of that, it means that there will be a time in the future when brilliance will resurface.

For example, in the scientific world, there are very few names that stick out right now. In the early 20th century, we had Einstein, Hubble, and several others that made huge contributions to science (specfically, astronomy and theoretical physics), whereas now, there aren't many names that bulge like a vein like the ones earlier mentioned. Everyone is working hard to make the next big discovery, to come up with the next big theory, to make the next big impact- and such, none of these people get much credit outside of their own circles. However, I'd venture to say that in the next century, there will be more huge breakthroughs that are associated with scientists' names, and then the cycle will begin again.

So, no, I refuse to believe that mankind is on the downward spiral right now. We are in a lull, maybe, but the wind will pick up again soon enough- and sitting here complaining about the lack of it sure isn't doing anyone any good at all.
 
#31
Hambone said:
IMO this post is should be put in the top ten for most intelligent and discussion ending opinions I have ever read on TB. Bravo! :bassist:

Now here's the rest of the story: Keep your eyes and ears open during the next 10 years. There is the "mother" of all Cultural Conflicts looming on the horizon and it's going to shame any "crisis of identity" this world has ever experienced since the Crusades.

Mark it down
Click to expand...

Yeeeeeeeaah, I agree, Except for that part where he talks about my acting.:confused:;)

I know that this is just in preparation for the big next big thing. I just hope recent events won't influence it.
 
#33
Historically, the only societies that make advancements in science and arts are the ones that have established suffcient networks of sustaining life. The majority of a civilisation's population had to concentrate the bulk of their lives working to maintain basic life necessities. The modern world has become so efficient that the efforts of a few can support the lives of many, on a massive scale. This leaves more people more time to develop technology and produce art. This makes me draw two conclusions. The first is that our quality of life has improved drastically. Meaning that we as a culture have been pretty succesful so far, and we are all too young to really appreciate how good we have it. The second being that virtually anyone with an idea is free to pursue that idea. There is so much art being produced that there is no effective channel of distribution for all of it. Pretty much anything you want in the artistic realm is out there and if you haven't found it it's because you aren't looking in the right place for it. And if there is something you're looking for and find that it just doesn't exist, then you have a good opportunity to really create something new.
Now, let me say this before anyone gets sad at me. When I say that quality of life has improved, I don't mean that nobody has it hard, because I'm aware of some of what's going on around me. I'm speaking about us as a whole. I can pretty easily imagine things being a lot tougher for a lot more people, that's all.
 
#34
jrug said:
Historically, the only societies that make advancements in science and arts are the ones that have established suffcient networks of sustaining life. The majority of a civilisation's population had to concentrate the bulk of their lives working to maintain basic life necessities. The modern world has become so efficient that the efforts of a few can support the lives of many, on a massive scale. This leaves more people more time to develop technology and produce art. This makes me draw two conclusions. The first is that our quality of life has improved drastically. Meaning that we as a culture have been pretty succesful so far, and we are all too young to really appreciate how good we have it. The second being that virtually anyone with an idea is free to pursue that idea. There is so much art being produced that there is no effective channel of distribution for all of it. Pretty much anything you want in the artistic realm is out there and if you haven't found it it's because you aren't looking in the right place for it. And if there is something you're looking for and find that it just doesn't exist, then you have a good opportunity to really create something new.
Now, let me say this before anyone gets sad at me. When I say that quality of life has improved, I don't mean that nobody has it hard, because I'm aware of some of what's going on around me. I'm speaking about us as a whole. I can pretty easily imagine things being a lot tougher for a lot more people, that's all.
Click to expand...

If I wasnt knee deep right now, Id dig up some references regarding hunter -gatherers and the twenty hour work week. Human cultures arent formulaic. There are no if - then statements you can project into the past. Inferences of human culture cannot be determined deductively. Well, theres always the - if people dont have oxygen/water/food they die - bit. However, thats really the biological portion and not culture. We can isolate biological variables to create systems where if - then statements apply. Not so with human culture.
 
#35
How come everyone on StarTrek doesn't have to work or go hungry, or there are no wars on the planet Earth. There is a vast transformation and sharing of knowledge.

I blame first world governments. They lie, withhold information, distort the truth and treat us like a meal ticket. They do not do anything to advance the human race as a race. They keep us down by our current system of education, working, taxes, and misinformation. Are there aliens? Why do we still use oil as our main source of power? Why does a toliet seat the government buys costs $300.00 when I can buy one for $13.29 at my local hardware store? Your telling me global warming doesn't exist? Why is 1 in 70 American men livning in prison?

Us as citizens have nothing better to do with ourselves but get drunk, play music and breed. Because we do not know the truth about things and are not in control of our destiny to advance as a people, but are here to serve others like slaves or endentured servants working for room and board.

my rant is now over
Click to expand...

Do you even watch Star Trek? Yes, they have to work. What do you think people are doing, serving on a star ship? It's the same as being in the military. There ARE wars -- maybe not on earth, but on a much larger, far more galactic scale. Borg, Romulans, Klingons? It took hundreds of years to find peace. Yes, the show is fantasy, but it's hardly a fantasy free of moral and cultural flaws.

Yes, first world governments are perpetuating the problem, but so are third world governments. Ever seen a state-run "orphanage" in Romania? Or how the government deals with the thousands of children living in Peru and Guatemala that come out at night to sniff American made glue? Maybe the government could put limits on the glue's sales, or even the presence of the companies in the countries at all. But no. Government-employed police instead choose to beat and rape the children, who are referred to as cockroaches. Or maybe I should direct you to the government of South Africa, a country who suffers the worst from the growing AIDS pandemic? The rate of AIDS infection there is higher than anywhere else in the world, and the government has wasted millions upon millions of dollars on hack-job prevention and education schemes that eventually amounted to nothing. Medicine that is KNOWN TO HELP is not given to the patients who need it. Don't be so quick to blame first world governments and first world governments only. There's plenty of blame to go around, and in a lot of cases, it's pure folly to limit it not only to first-world governments, but even governments, CEOs, and trhe media in general. Blaming the "big boys" -- the impersonal figureheads, representing hundreds of thousands of people, ones so distant from yourself -- and not looking around at yourself and your neighbours is a total cop-out. Quit ranting about the horrors of your abstract scapegoats and realize that every time we go to Wal-Mart or get our gas from Shell or the Flying J that we too perpetuate the problems. Every time we shop at HMV or Barnes and Noble, we're supporting the "mass media" that we whine about every day, that is so seemingly responsible for the stagnation of our every day culture.

No, we are not going to have a "cultural wasteland". It's all just part of a cycle that has continued for thousands of years.
 
#36
Modern American culture is constructed around the behaviors that are encouraged through our social institutions. The most important institution historically in our culture is our economy, and Capitalism defines the values that shape our morality. We are constantly at war with ourselves. We claim superior values and decry the loss of a civility that may be more collective amnesia than anything else. We have been a nation of merchants from day one, and the driving principles of Capitalism (expansion, exploitation, and rule by oligarchy) are the social values that we cherish most. Individualism, security, and prosperity define what it means to be a modern American. We commodify every aspect of our lives. Ben Franklin said it best: "Time is money." That is a quintessential quality of the American experience. All politics is is the way that people affect government to ensure their access to critical economic resources. Modern popular culture, which has really only been around since the turn of the twentieth century, is based upon the ability of entreprenuers to take indigenous cultural products and turn them into marketable objects. With the increasing pace of technological change, the time it takes to mass market, mass replicate, and mass disseminate cultural products is rapidly decreasing. Capitalist expansion requires that those half-dozen mass producers of pop cultural products always be looking to the next product because the attention span of consumers is waning. There is too much stuff competing for our attention. It is a mass production mentality that requires new products to be constantly introduced while yesterday's product quickly recedes into the past and is obsolete. Are we doomed to a cultural wasteland? Not really, but the environment that encourages the innovations of the market has changed significantly. As long as people interact, there will be culture. Remember, culture is that which we share with each other. My $.02
 
#37
Folmeister said:
Modern American culture is constructed around the behaviors that are encouraged through our social institutions. The most important institution historically in our culture is our economy, and Capitalism defines the values that shape our morality. We are constantly at war with ourselves. We claim superior values and decry the loss of a civility that may be more collective amnesia than anything else. We have been a nation of merchants from day one, and the driving principles of Capitalism (expansion, exploitation, and rule by oligarchy) are the social values that we cherish most. Individualism, security, and prosperity define what it means to be a modern American. We commodify every aspect of our lives. Ben Franklin said it best: "Time is money." That is a quintessential quality of the American experience. All politics is is the way that people affect government to ensure their access to critical economic resources. Modern popular culture, which has really only been around since the turn of the twentieth century, is based upon the ability of entreprenuers to take indigenous cultural products and turn them into marketable objects. With the increasing pace of technological change, the time it takes to mass market, mass replicate, and mass disseminate cultural products is rapidly decreasing. Capitalist expansion requires that those half-dozen mass producers of pop cultural products always be looking to the next product because the attention span of consumers is waning. There is too much stuff competing for our attention. It is a mass production mentality that requires new products to be constantly introduced while yesterday's product quickly recedes into the past and is obsolete. Are we doomed to a cultural wasteland? Not really, but the environment that encourages the innovations of the market has changed significantly. As long as people interact, there will be culture. Remember, culture is that which we share with each other. My $.02
Click to expand...



What a fantastic post this is. It totally makes sense when you put it this way... you've gotta be a social science professor or degree holder, with that little reference you made to the political economy. I am impressed.
 
#38
Folmeister said:
Modern American culture is constructed around the behaviors that are encouraged through our social institutions. The most important institution historically in our culture is our economy, and Capitalism defines the values that shape our morality. We are constantly at war with ourselves. We claim superior values and decry the loss of a civility that may be more collective amnesia than anything else. We have been a nation of merchants from day one, and the driving principles of Capitalism (expansion, exploitation, and rule by oligarchy) are the social values that we cherish most. Individualism, security, and prosperity define what it means to be a modern American. We commodify every aspect of our lives. Ben Franklin said it best: "Time is money." That is a quintessential quality of the American experience. All politics is is the way that people affect government to ensure their access to critical economic resources. Modern popular culture, which has really only been around since the turn of the twentieth century, is based upon the ability of entreprenuers to take indigenous cultural products and turn them into marketable objects. With the increasing pace of technological change, the time it takes to mass market, mass replicate, and mass disseminate cultural products is rapidly decreasing. Capitalist expansion requires that those half-dozen mass producers of pop cultural products always be looking to the next product because the attention span of consumers is waning. There is too much stuff competing for our attention. It is a mass production mentality that requires new products to be constantly introduced while yesterday's product quickly recedes into the past and is obsolete. Are we doomed to a cultural wasteland? Not really, but the environment that encourages the innovations of the market has changed significantly. As long as people interact, there will be culture. Remember, culture is that which we share with each other. My $.02
Click to expand...
I like you. I couldn't have summed up Capitalist society better if I tried.
Leigh
 
#39
MacheteJames said:
What a fantastic post this is. It totally makes sense when you put it this way... you've gotta be a social science professor or degree holder, with that little reference you made to the political economy. I am impressed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I am. I teach social science survey courses at Diablo Valley College in Pleasant Hill, CA. Come take my classes and join in the fun!
 

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