Are you a union member?

[BawanaRik]

No, it's not part of salary. It's part of income. That's what I said.

I think you misunderstand stock options. Did you ever get any?

Income? I make more from my stocks than I do working now. Yes it's income. I like income! Income GOOD!

But what does it have to do with CEO compensation? When they buy stocks they deserve the rewards that come with the risks.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Stock ownership isn't part of salary. In my experience the stocks are bought.

You can buy stocks.

I think it's 50% of stocks, bonds, and mutual funds that are owned in the US belong to the top 1% of Americans. Can you guess how much the bottom 50% of Americans own in comparison? Believe me, it's not the middle class and poor who are dividing this country.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

I think you misunderstand stock options. Did you ever get any?

Income? I make more from my stocks than I do working now. Yes it's income. I like income! Income GOOD!

But what does it have to do with CEO compensation? When they buy stocks they deserve the rewards that come with the risks.

They are given stock in the company as incentive to perform well. It's a performance based income that helps make up the whole of their salary. It needs to be considered, especially when some are getting stock options in the 10s, if not 100s, of millions.

 

[BawanaRik]

I think it's 50% of stocks, bonds, and mutual funds that are owned in the US belong to the top 1% of Americans. Can you guess how much the bottom 50% of Americans own in comparison? Believe me, it's not the middle class and poor who are dividing this country.

So why not buy some? That would be the smart thing to do.

I have lots of stocks and some bonds and that makes me happy.

 

[BawanaRik]

They are given stock in the company as incentive to perform well. It's a performance based income that helps make up the whole of their salary. It needs to be considered, especially when some are getting stock options in the 10s, if not 100s, of millions.

How about a list of those getting 100 millions of, I assume, dollars this year.

I would like to see that!

 

[LiquidMidnight]

I think you misunderstand stock options. Did you ever get any?

Income? I make more from my stocks than I do working now. Yes it's income. I like income! Income GOOD!

But what does it have to do with CEO compensation? When they buy stocks they deserve the rewards that come with the risks.

First, yes I do own stocks. Second, that is what I'm saying: stocks and salary are not the same thing! Your link only considers salary. That is, the agreed upon yearly compensation for services rendered in a labor market. Unrepresented's article computed CEO income, which includes both stocks and salary. That's why, even if your citation came from the same population, it's going to be a different number. It's only considering salary.

How many different ways do I need to explain this?

 

[fmoore200]

Trolls troll. That is the nature of the internet ecosystem

 

[LiquidMidnight]

.

That fact is stock ownership isn't necessarily compensation. Stock options aren't always "free". I've attempted to explain this but I feel it goes right by you.

It is considered compensation with regard to Unrepresented's article. As far as I can tell, it isn't a part of compensation with regard to your link. Therefore, you can't compare, because they are two disparate numbers. That's all I'm saying.

 

[blue4]

If you receive stock options from your company for a bonus or as part of a compensation package, how can it not be compensation?

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

I am not in a union as I am self employed but I personally do favour unions.

I like the fact of having a 40 hour work week, getting paid overtime beyond my 8 hour shift, getting two days off a week, and paid vacation. Those are liberties that unions have provided for us. To my understanding not all states have to provide you a paid vacation time each year, but I do not know the inner workings of the American employment system. These are things we have in Canada because of unions.

I will concede that unions do help idiots/lazy people keep their jobs in lots of situations though, that is probably the biggest downfall.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

If you receive stock options from your company for a bonus or as part of a compensation package, how can it not be compensation?

It is compensation, but I believe that one of the links in question is only considering salary as compensation, whereas the other is considering salary, plus other things like the value of securities.

I've mentioned this so many times, I don't know anymore.

 

[MAJOR METAL]

I was. I am now experiencing the difficulty of getting them to stop taking my $ since I was moved to management outside of the union.

 

[smperry]

I was. I am now experiencing the difficulty of getting them to stop taking my $ since I was moved to management outside of the union.

That was quick. Cheers, and miss you on the east coast.

On topic, I'm in a union. Worth it to me for the healthcare and retirement benefits. Salary, I can negotiate myself.

 

[jp58]

I enjoy the fact that I pay a combined $14 for union dues and health insurance. I dislike several thing about the union itself, but I cannot deny the benefits it provides.

 

[blue4]

It is compensation, but I believe that one of the links in question is only considering salary as compensation, whereas the other is considering salary, plus other things like the value of securities.

I've mentioned this so many times, I don't know anymore.

I am aware of the difference in the links. I noticed that pretty much right off. My point is that I can't see how anyone can say stock options isn't compensation. Any bonus everyone else gets is considered compensation.

 

[DerHoggz]

I am aware of the difference in the links. I noticed that pretty much right off. My point is that I can't see how anyone can say stock options isn't compensation. Any bonus everyone else gets is considered compensation.

Bawana will say whatever he wants to argue a point, even if no one was addressing anything related to that point. It is very effective for shutting down discussion.

 

[Bassist4Eris]

It seems like my union is only good for protecting the lazy and incompetent from facing the consequences of their laziness and incompetence. When it comes down to things like a recent 10% layoff, they're absolutely toothless. I work for the state of NY, and we're affected by something called the Taylor Law, which prohibits my union from going on strike. And so they're really pretty ineffective at anything that really matters.

 

[fdeck]

I think you misunderstand stock options. Did you ever get any?

Income? I make more from my stocks than I do working now. Yes it's income. I like income! Income GOOD!

But what does it have to do with CEO compensation? When they buy stocks they deserve the rewards that come with the risks.

Are you sure you're talking about stock options, and not an employee stock purchase plan? Those are different things. A stock option is an option to buy a stock in the future at a price that's determined when the option is granted. There's minimal risk because, if the options are underwater at any point, you just leave them alone and they vanish on the expiration date. The primary risks would be associated with opportunity costs, such as sticking with a failing company because you're holding options, rather than looking for a more promising job elsewhere.

I agree that making income from stocks is income.

But as for risk, I'm aware of no mainstream economic principle that entitles a person to a reward in proportion to a risk. The very definition of a risk is that some people get rewarded, and some people don't. I also doubt that CEO's are risk takers. Rather, I think that most successful business people tend to be risk-averse. While all business activity (including staying out of business) involves some risk, successful business people tend to look for opportunities where they can manage those risks down to a relatively low level through the use of their own knowledge and expertise, innovation, or some sort of guaranteed safety net such as a golden parachute.

The heroic "risk taker" is a mythical character of bad utopian novels.

 

[MAJOR METAL]

That was quick. Cheers, and miss you on the east coast.

Thanks Dr. Marsh!

 

[MarkMgibson]

I am not in a union as I am self employed but I personally do favour unions.

I like the fact of having a 40 hour work week, getting paid overtime beyond my 8 hour shift, getting two days off a week, and paid vacation. Those are liberties that unions have provided for us. To my understanding not all states have to provide you a paid vacation time each year, but I do not know the inner workings of the American employment system. These are things we have in Canada because of unions.

I will concede that unions do help idiots/lazy people keep their jobs in lots of situations though, that is probably the biggest downfall.

Exactly right. In Australia, the government crushed unionism in the 90's. A lot of my friends are employed as "casual labour" in jobs many have been working in for 10 or more years. For this, they get a slightly higher pay rate (about 4%), but they get no paid vacation, maternity leave, sick leave, or other benefits, and if business suddenly gets slow, their hours can be cut with no notice (which is very common). They can also be sacked for no reason, as they're not considered "full time employees", even if they've been working 40 hours a week for 10 years. I'd guess that a third of Australians and now employed as "casuals", whether full-time or part-time.

This would never have happened 25 years ago. I've watched the decline of unions and the effect it's had on friends and relatives and it p**** me off. It's very plain that the benefits of unions far outweigh any negatives, and that many employers won't treat employees fairly unless they're forced to, which is exactly why the union movement started in the first place. Take unions protections away, and workers get treated like crap. That's a fact, pure and simple.