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Double Bass Arnopol 8 Cabinet - A Winner!
- Thread starter Eric Hochberg
- Start date
+1
Want! Would pair well with my Wizzy 10? Alas, no cash; I'm just a tire kicker, uh, thread picker, ehm, cone licker, ohm, Scotch Liquor ...
I bought Mike's first commercial Crazy8. It arrived today. Very well packed. And it sounds amazing! My gold standard is an LDS 12/6 cab - one of the so-called "super 12s." It's slightly smaller than a 210 and weighs about 35 pounds. I've wanted something substantially smaller and lighter for low-volume jazz gigs but alternatives have not sounded as good. I bought the Genz Benz 10T and Acme B-1 and neither one were as clear and true as the 12/6. When I fired up the Crazy8, I immediately knew this cab is a sonic jewel, especially for acoustic bass. The tweeter is especially effective and adds a bit of air and openness that sounds perfect. You immediately notice the loss when the tweeter attenuator is turned off. The quality of your construction is all pro. I can't believe what a tone machine this is in such a portable form factor! And the weight - just 13.5 pounds!!! Feels like a toy it's so light. But such a quality piece of gear. Seeing the Crazy8 for the first time sends a slight shock, as in seeing another pathbreaking invention like iPhone or iPad. It's a quality job of miniaturization.
Mike was a pro in producing this cab. We had timely email and phone calls that clearly handled every detail. He collaborated with GreenBoy in designing this cab. GB built the crossover, which is smoothly enables terrific tone throughout the sonic spectrum. Both encouraged me to go with the tweeter as this cab is for acoustic bass guitar (a Rob Allen Deep 4). I'm glad I got the tweeter.
The quality of construction is excellent. Good attention to detail. All screws are secured with a nut, which is important used with the composite walls. The tilt-back legs are top notch and the implementation is perfect as the chosen position adds stability. Because of the steep angle, the face of the cab directly points at my head when I stand about 6-7 feet in front. Sonic dispersion is excellent nearby on the sides. The cab sounded terrific out of the box with all EQ settings flat. It sounded drop dead gorgeous when I plugged in an Empress ParaEQ and slightly boosted bass at about 90Hz, lower mids @ 250Hz, and slightly cut highs.
Volume wise, this will easily handle any jazz combo or small gig. Probably up to mid-sized situations, too. We'll have to see how it sounds out in the audience in a gig setting. I suspect it will do fine.
I'm very enthusiastic about the Crazy8. I will share other reactions as I get more experience with the cab, especially playing it in a band/performance context. Meanwhile, here are photos to convey an idea of how small this powerhouse of a cab is. First shots are of the Crazy8; others compare it to the 12-6.
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Mike was a pro in producing this cab. We had timely email and phone calls that clearly handled every detail. He collaborated with GreenBoy in designing this cab. GB built the crossover, which is smoothly enables terrific tone throughout the sonic spectrum. Both encouraged me to go with the tweeter as this cab is for acoustic bass guitar (a Rob Allen Deep 4). I'm glad I got the tweeter.
The quality of construction is excellent. Good attention to detail. All screws are secured with a nut, which is important used with the composite walls. The tilt-back legs are top notch and the implementation is perfect as the chosen position adds stability. Because of the steep angle, the face of the cab directly points at my head when I stand about 6-7 feet in front. Sonic dispersion is excellent nearby on the sides. The cab sounded terrific out of the box with all EQ settings flat. It sounded drop dead gorgeous when I plugged in an Empress ParaEQ and slightly boosted bass at about 90Hz, lower mids @ 250Hz, and slightly cut highs.
Volume wise, this will easily handle any jazz combo or small gig. Probably up to mid-sized situations, too. We'll have to see how it sounds out in the audience in a gig setting. I suspect it will do fine.
I'm very enthusiastic about the Crazy8. I will share other reactions as I get more experience with the cab, especially playing it in a band/performance context. Meanwhile, here are photos to convey an idea of how small this powerhouse of a cab is. First shots are of the Crazy8; others compare it to the 12-6.
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Thanks so much! I really only started this project to make one cab for me, but when a buddy here in Chitown played it I thought "hmmm maybe other guys might like it" I'm happy that there is a cab to fill this need. I think the 13.5 lbs was shipping weight? Not net, right?
You told me this is the cab weight. I don't have a scale to check, but frankly, once you're in this zone a pound doesn't matter! For anyone considering a Crazy8, I'd skip the attenuator as the tweeter is easy to control with EQ and will trim what, another half pound or more? The kickstand and corners and screws/nuts probably added a pound. I can't believe how much bass girth this cab projects! It's a little disorienting as you hear the bass but wonder how could all that tone come from such a tiny box? It's crazy!
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Sorry Dave, brain fart here. With the tiltback and attenuator it does bring it up to 13.5#. !2 1/2# without. And right about 10# with no tweeter. I'm building a Crazy 88 right now. 10 1/2" x 21.5" x 13 ". About 20# with the tweeter. It looks minute to me but should be pushin' at the door of the best 2x10's dynamically but sounding better. Should have it done with pics this week.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Thanks, Ukiah, you pushed me over the edge with your well-written review! 
Two weeks to go. 
Mike, you're making me drool about the possibility of combining a Crazy8 and a Crazy88 for Crazyloud gigs. Not fair!
Two weeks to go. Mike, you're making me drool about the possibility of combining a Crazy8 and a Crazy88 for Crazyloud gigs. Not fair!
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Greets, Stumbo,
Most of my prototyping was done on a pole/stand, mainly to get FR measurements - but also to get that nearfield listening experience that tells you more about the crossover and the imaging. But to really play my basses the ended up on the floor tilted upward where it could take advantage of boundary reinforcement for the lower frequencies.
For live use, unless a Crazy8 is pole-mounted a relatively short distance above a woofer-only Crazy8, I'll typically not want to take the hit that comes from losing acoustic coupling. For PA use or acoustic guitar or whatever that's fine, but for a bass instrument it's a big tradeoff.
I might take that same tradeoff with a larger cab that's voiced boomy, but probably not for a single Crazy8 which is entirely more coherent even when floor- or corner-loaded.
Most of my prototyping was done on a pole/stand, mainly to get FR measurements - but also to get that nearfield listening experience that tells you more about the crossover and the imaging. But to really play my basses the ended up on the floor tilted upward where it could take advantage of boundary reinforcement for the lower frequencies.
For live use, unless a Crazy8 is pole-mounted a relatively short distance above a woofer-only Crazy8, I'll typically not want to take the hit that comes from losing acoustic coupling. For PA use or acoustic guitar or whatever that's fine, but for a bass instrument it's a big tradeoff.
I might take that same tradeoff with a larger cab that's voiced boomy, but probably not for a single Crazy8 which is entirely more coherent even when floor- or corner-loaded.
This is a bit off topic and is for those of you who might be wondering if the Crazy8 could work for a doubler. My experience is short, but I'm super pleased with Crazy8 for acoustic bass. It is perfect for small jazz gigs, coffee houses, etc. and may surprise with adequate presence in larger venues. When micing a cab for recording acoustic bass, I will use the Crazy8 instead of my 12/6. It will definitely be my home studio cab of choice for acoustic. The Crazy8 would be more than enough as a stage monitor for acoustic. If you're going through the PA, the Crazy8 is all you'll need.
As for electric bass, up till now no minature cab I've tried has matched the quality of my LDS 12/6 "Super 12" cab. How well would Crazy8 work with my Fender Aerodyne Jazz bass, which is configured as a P bass, treble on full, and groundwound strings? I plugged it into an Empress ParaEQ and EA Micro and the 12/6. I must admit a bias of not favoring the EA Micro for my Fender. The Micro sounds great but I prefer a tube amp for the classic phat girth of that instrument. But since the EA Micro was already out, I played the Fender through the 12/6 and then switched it into the Crazy8. The Fender + Crazy8 is very responsive to EQ. Excellent tone and presence for a cab this small. Nice. If I had a gig in a small venue where people would be talking, eating, etc. and volume would be temperate, I'd definitely use the Crazy8. The 12/6 has more presence but it also has a LOT more cone space so that's hardly fair. However, if I were going to mike a cab w/my Fender and record from that feed - and I was using the EA Micro - I'd go with the 12/6. You might prefer otherwise as one person's sonic preferences may vary from another's.
But here is where it gets interesting. For my Fender and the 12/6 (or larger 15/6), I prefer to use a Genz Benz Streamliner 900. This micro amp has a 3-stage tube preamp so the tone is classic clean tube. You can add dirt with effectiveness. I prefer clean tube. So I swapped out the EA Micro for the Streamliner and WOW. Obviously, you'd have the same gig volume limitations mentioned above, but with EQ, the Fender + Crazy8 virtually matched the tone and girthy feeling of the 12/6. To get there I had to boost bass and mid-bass EQ to more extreme settings and cut highs. I also had to boost the volume louder to make the Crazy8 sound/feel the same as the 12/6. But it worked. I was surprised at how effective the Crazy8 is with a tube amp. Not only would I gig Crazy8 with electric, I would use it for recording with this configuration.
I might feel just as comfortable recording the Fender with the EA Micro if I experimented with EQ but didn't go there because I like the Streamliner better for that application.
In sum, Crazy8 should do fine for a doubler provided you are prepared to use more extreme EQ and not expect loud volumes required by some electric bass applications. Over time as more Crazy8s get out there, we'll learn more about this cab's utility. So far, everything I've learned is very good. Well done, Mike & Greenboy!
As for electric bass, up till now no minature cab I've tried has matched the quality of my LDS 12/6 "Super 12" cab. How well would Crazy8 work with my Fender Aerodyne Jazz bass, which is configured as a P bass, treble on full, and groundwound strings? I plugged it into an Empress ParaEQ and EA Micro and the 12/6. I must admit a bias of not favoring the EA Micro for my Fender. The Micro sounds great but I prefer a tube amp for the classic phat girth of that instrument. But since the EA Micro was already out, I played the Fender through the 12/6 and then switched it into the Crazy8. The Fender + Crazy8 is very responsive to EQ. Excellent tone and presence for a cab this small. Nice. If I had a gig in a small venue where people would be talking, eating, etc. and volume would be temperate, I'd definitely use the Crazy8. The 12/6 has more presence but it also has a LOT more cone space so that's hardly fair. However, if I were going to mike a cab w/my Fender and record from that feed - and I was using the EA Micro - I'd go with the 12/6. You might prefer otherwise as one person's sonic preferences may vary from another's.
But here is where it gets interesting. For my Fender and the 12/6 (or larger 15/6), I prefer to use a Genz Benz Streamliner 900. This micro amp has a 3-stage tube preamp so the tone is classic clean tube. You can add dirt with effectiveness. I prefer clean tube. So I swapped out the EA Micro for the Streamliner and WOW. Obviously, you'd have the same gig volume limitations mentioned above, but with EQ, the Fender + Crazy8 virtually matched the tone and girthy feeling of the 12/6. To get there I had to boost bass and mid-bass EQ to more extreme settings and cut highs. I also had to boost the volume louder to make the Crazy8 sound/feel the same as the 12/6. But it worked. I was surprised at how effective the Crazy8 is with a tube amp. Not only would I gig Crazy8 with electric, I would use it for recording with this configuration.
I might feel just as comfortable recording the Fender with the EA Micro if I experimented with EQ but didn't go there because I like the Streamliner better for that application.
In sum, Crazy8 should do fine for a doubler provided you are prepared to use more extreme EQ and not expect loud volumes required by some electric bass applications. Over time as more Crazy8s get out there, we'll learn more about this cab's utility. So far, everything I've learned is very good. Well done, Mike & Greenboy!
Here are the measurements of my Crazy8, from edge of corner protector to edge of corner protector (just did this for a cab cover):
Height = 13 5/8 inches (not including 3/8" more for the small rubber feet)
Width = 10 3/4 inches
Depth = 11 5/ 8 inches. Does not include approx 1/4" extension of the woofer cover.
I posted this on the other thread---hope you guys don't mind
Thanks so much again, Ukiah.
Simple physics is really in play here. You take the aera of the cone and multiply it by the maximum linear excursion and it will give you a reasonable idea of what you can expect as far as volume. So when I look at the 10" speakers out there I can get make the statement that the Crazy 8 will at least match the volume of any 10 out there. When you put 2 together you're about at the same level as a typical 210 or what I'll call a "typical" 12. When you put 3 together you're getting in the realm of the "super 12's" or a typical 15, Make sense?
I'm completing the first 88 and I'm super stoked. What my goal is for my own personal setup is an 88 and a 8 to cover a majority of my gigs. An 8 for the small gigs, an 88 for louder upright gigs and a stack of the 2 for most electric gigs.
The Crazy 8 looks small---but for what it does the 88 looks TEENIE. My problem has always been that I like my cabs elevated for clarity or on the ground for low end coupling. Now (I hope) I can have my cake and eat it too. But the biggest thing for me is that I can have something that for my needs also offers sonic superiority.
I feel a bit uncomfortable commenting on something that I'm obviously prejudiced about, but I'm still the same bass geek that I was when I took the subway to downtown Chicago at age 10 to marvel at the basses on the wall at the Guitar Gallery, or the amps at the Kustom showroom.
To be honest, the real kudos here belong to Faital for coming up with an amazing driver---just like those due to Eminence for coming up with the Kappalites. We just plug in the numbers and try to make something out of it.
I'm still a working bassist first and foremost. If my over exuberance is out of line or inappropriate--I really apologize. It's just so much fun to find new gear that makes my playing experience more enjoyable!
And it's fun working with Greenboy---a real pioneer and more of a bass geek than me!
Thanks so much again, Ukiah.
Simple physics is really in play here. You take the aera of the cone and multiply it by the maximum linear excursion and it will give you a reasonable idea of what you can expect as far as volume. So when I look at the 10" speakers out there I can get make the statement that the Crazy 8 will at least match the volume of any 10 out there. When you put 2 together you're about at the same level as a typical 210 or what I'll call a "typical" 12. When you put 3 together you're getting in the realm of the "super 12's" or a typical 15, Make sense?
I'm completing the first 88 and I'm super stoked. What my goal is for my own personal setup is an 88 and a 8 to cover a majority of my gigs. An 8 for the small gigs, an 88 for louder upright gigs and a stack of the 2 for most electric gigs.
The Crazy 8 looks small---but for what it does the 88 looks TEENIE. My problem has always been that I like my cabs elevated for clarity or on the ground for low end coupling. Now (I hope) I can have my cake and eat it too. But the biggest thing for me is that I can have something that for my needs also offers sonic superiority.
I feel a bit uncomfortable commenting on something that I'm obviously prejudiced about, but I'm still the same bass geek that I was when I took the subway to downtown Chicago at age 10 to marvel at the basses on the wall at the Guitar Gallery, or the amps at the Kustom showroom.
To be honest, the real kudos here belong to Faital for coming up with an amazing driver---just like those due to Eminence for coming up with the Kappalites. We just plug in the numbers and try to make something out of it.
I'm still a working bassist first and foremost. If my over exuberance is out of line or inappropriate--I really apologize. It's just so much fun to find new gear that makes my playing experience more enjoyable!
And it's fun working with Greenboy---a real pioneer and more of a bass geek than me!
