The way it is worded means what percentage OF asking price. So if you though that you shouldn't ask for any more than 30 percent off, you'd answer with "70 percent." But something tells me that isn't what was intended by the OP. Part of it is that if he/she meant percentage OF asking price, then "Anything less than asking" would be on the opposite end of the list. That context leads me to believe that percentage OFF asking price was the intended meaning. Some people probably answered it one way, and some the other way. Now the poll is so screwed by this mixup that the results are completely meaningless.
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At what point is it lowballing. A poll.
- Thread starter TheReceder
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The way it is worded means what percentage OF asking price. So if you though that you shouldn't ask for any more than 30 percent off, you'd answer with "70 percent." But something tells me that isn't what was intended by the OP. Part of it is that if he/she meant percentage OF asking price, then "Anything less than asking" would be on the opposite end of the list. That context leads me to believe that percentage OFF asking price was the intended meaning. Some people probably answered it one way, and some the other way. Now the poll is so screwed by this mixup that the results are completely meaningless.
- Oct 18, 2012
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Depends on how close to reality the seller’s original asking price is.
Exactly. I always research what similar items have sold for and price about 10 to 20% higher to leave room for negotiating. When buying, I also do research and offer about 10 to 15% below the average selling price. If the seller's asking price is much higher than the average sold price, I won't make an offer at all.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
My point is that If the seller is asking free-market value without a valid reason, it's not low balling to offer 50%. If the asking price and you come in under that, you are low balling IMHO.
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No such thing as low balling IMHO.
Things are only worth what the market is willing to pay. So regardless what things cost to make or what the seller want to sell it for, if there is no one willing to pay that then it not worth what the seller wants.
Seller wants $1000
Highest offer from buyers $700
Item is worth $700
Seller wants $1000
Highest offer from buyers $1200
Item is worth $1200
Things are only worth what the market is willing to pay. So regardless what things cost to make or what the seller want to sell it for, if there is no one willing to pay that then it not worth what the seller wants.
Seller wants $1000
Highest offer from buyers $700
Item is worth $700
Seller wants $1000
Highest offer from buyers $1200
Item is worth $1200
I relate a lesson from my father.
We were home over the summer repairing the house we just bought in Texas. We did not have a basement so he directed me to sell the boxes of Lionelmodel trains....5 engines. Two controllers, hundreds of feet of track, etc . Put ad in paper (this was late 60s).
First buyer offered 10% of the asking price. I told my father, he came out front with a sledge hammer, picked out a model engine and smashed it in front of the buyer. The buyer quickly paid the full price, but asked for a discount for the smashed engine. My father said that was for the insult.
Ps. The engine my father smashed didnt run. My father was temperamental but also very clever.
We were home over the summer repairing the house we just bought in Texas. We did not have a basement so he directed me to sell the boxes of Lionelmodel trains....5 engines. Two controllers, hundreds of feet of track, etc . Put ad in paper (this was late 60s).
First buyer offered 10% of the asking price. I told my father, he came out front with a sledge hammer, picked out a model engine and smashed it in front of the buyer. The buyer quickly paid the full price, but asked for a discount for the smashed engine. My father said that was for the insult.
Ps. The engine my father smashed didnt run. My father was temperamental but also very clever.
For all of ebay's liabilities, that's one benefit at least. If you list your product effectively, and pick the right duration, the lowballers are dealt with by being outbid by others - with no "haggling headaches" necessary on your end. The fair/market price for the product is (with exceptions) whatever it ends up selling for.
Biggest issue for sellers, of course, is that many of the wiser buyers are leery of what's available on the bay - caveat emptor.
Biggest issue for sellers, of course, is that many of the wiser buyers are leery of what's available on the bay - caveat emptor.
I read the poll as offering a percentage off the asking price.
Asking for 25% or more off the price starts to feel like low balling, if the item is priced at fair market value on the used market.
Not that I won’t throw an offer out asking for 25% or more off. I know I’m low balling, but I prefer to call it fishing. No bites? Cool.
It’s an opening offer. We can talk.
Same thing if I’m selling. It’s a nibble on what I want sold. I’m happy to haggle.
I do gear swap meets all the time. Early in the morning, my offer might feel low. When it’s time to load your unsold gear in the truck and go home, my offer might fly.
If my first offer gets turned down, I might spend the dough on something else. There might not be another offer from me.
I like the game.
Bought an amp from a guy for a great price. A year or so later, he expressed interest in buying it back. But he thought it was now worth $200 less. I told him he could have it back for the original price, and consider it an interest free, 12 month loan, with the amp as collateral.
I’ve still got the amp. Nice try.
Asking for 25% or more off the price starts to feel like low balling, if the item is priced at fair market value on the used market.
Not that I won’t throw an offer out asking for 25% or more off. I know I’m low balling, but I prefer to call it fishing. No bites? Cool.
It’s an opening offer. We can talk.
Same thing if I’m selling. It’s a nibble on what I want sold. I’m happy to haggle.
I do gear swap meets all the time. Early in the morning, my offer might feel low. When it’s time to load your unsold gear in the truck and go home, my offer might fly.
If my first offer gets turned down, I might spend the dough on something else. There might not be another offer from me.
I like the game.
Bought an amp from a guy for a great price. A year or so later, he expressed interest in buying it back. But he thought it was now worth $200 less. I told him he could have it back for the original price, and consider it an interest free, 12 month loan, with the amp as collateral.
I’ve still got the amp. Nice try.
1) Depends on the price. ... 15% off $100 is $85 ... But, 15% off $5000 is $4,250. ...
If you're not in the room with cash then expect someone to say no.
Lowballers usually have lots of time and very little money. ...
When I post to sell a bass I add at the end, "Lowballers, save your breath and start saving your money."
If you're not in the room with cash then expect someone to say no.
Lowballers usually have lots of time and very little money. ...
When I post to sell a bass I add at the end, "Lowballers, save your breath and start saving your money."
Any offer that doesn't include carrots. And here is why...
Unfortunately, assessing whether there is a lowball is entirely subjective because there are two parties in a transaction. Sometimes a seller is asking an egregious price and thus a low bid does not a lowballer make. Case and point:
* Near Mint * MUSICMAN USA Sting Ray Bass HIPSHOP BARTOLINI W/OHC FreeShipping | eBay
First, hat tip to my friend and partner in many crimes bass-related @rojo412 for finding this ebay "gem" some weeks ago and forwarding to me in an email with the subject "They must have crack in Japan."
Anyway, on to the topic, the seller is offering a stingray of recent vintage, likely refinished, with the special sauce (i..e the OEM electronics) swapped out. The bass has some of the original electronics and a hard shell case but plenty of patina on the hardware.
The asking price is $6600 (SIX THOUSAND SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS). If you made an offer about 90% lower than the asking price and offered to pay EMS, that would be a fair offer, not a low ball. In this example, it is the seller who is out of line here, not the one making the offer for 90% off. And this type of crazy price-making is becoming more prevalent online lately. It is as if bassists finally caught up on "Antique Road Show" and saw the episode where Joe Blow bought a crappy piece of art at a tag sale and found an original draft of the Declaration of Independence" in the frame. But I digress.
My point here is that unfortunately, the same rules apply to low-balling as do to pornography: you know it when you see it.
That's all I got.
RBM
Unfortunately, assessing whether there is a lowball is entirely subjective because there are two parties in a transaction. Sometimes a seller is asking an egregious price and thus a low bid does not a lowballer make. Case and point:
* Near Mint * MUSICMAN USA Sting Ray Bass HIPSHOP BARTOLINI W/OHC FreeShipping | eBay
First, hat tip to my friend and partner in many crimes bass-related @rojo412 for finding this ebay "gem" some weeks ago and forwarding to me in an email with the subject "They must have crack in Japan."
Anyway, on to the topic, the seller is offering a stingray of recent vintage, likely refinished, with the special sauce (i..e the OEM electronics) swapped out. The bass has some of the original electronics and a hard shell case but plenty of patina on the hardware.
The asking price is $6600 (SIX THOUSAND SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS). If you made an offer about 90% lower than the asking price and offered to pay EMS, that would be a fair offer, not a low ball. In this example, it is the seller who is out of line here, not the one making the offer for 90% off. And this type of crazy price-making is becoming more prevalent online lately. It is as if bassists finally caught up on "Antique Road Show" and saw the episode where Joe Blow bought a crappy piece of art at a tag sale and found an original draft of the Declaration of Independence" in the frame. But I digress.
My point here is that unfortunately, the same rules apply to low-balling as do to pornography: you know it when you see it.
That's all I got.
RBM
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I'd have to disagree with that, as "the market" could be a few people that would love an item that originally cost $2000, generally sells for around $1000 2nd hand, but they are only willing to offer $500, or can only afford to offer $500. That doesn't mean the item is only worth $500 in reality, it simply means that no one at that time wants to, or can afford to, pay more. A few months later, someone might come along and offer $1200 for it, because they appreciate the real value of the item and can afford to pay what it's realistically worth.
the definition of lowballing is the offer threshold below which the seller gets butthurt 
I think you should feel free to make any offer you like, no matter how low it is. And the seller is feel free to reject your offer.
As a buyer, I always operate under two assumptions until proven otherwise:
1. The seller is motivated to sell.
2. The seller has priced the item at or above fair street value in anticipation of inevitably fielding offers lower than his asking price.
I have the right to ask, seller has the right to respond with a simple yes, no, maybe, or counter. Lectures and sass offer nothing productive and can even end the dialog.
Any seller who is offended by my diplomatic, reasonable, polite negotiation efforts loses my interest immediately. It's how the game has been played for thousands of years, it should not be an affront to anyone's sensibilities or morals. I won't buy from an uptight asshat who decides to project his general frustration with life on to me. I don't need any musical instrument that badly, and something else of equivalent value and interest will surely come down the pike.
Same goes for sellers who are insulted or inconvenienced by simple questions about the history and condition of the instrument. Now that I think about it, some people should just refrain from selling their own instruments and use consignment arrangements instead (local music store, a friend, etc.). It's not in their character to handle the strain of dealing with people.
1. The seller is motivated to sell.
2. The seller has priced the item at or above fair street value in anticipation of inevitably fielding offers lower than his asking price.
I have the right to ask, seller has the right to respond with a simple yes, no, maybe, or counter. Lectures and sass offer nothing productive and can even end the dialog.
Any seller who is offended by my diplomatic, reasonable, polite negotiation efforts loses my interest immediately. It's how the game has been played for thousands of years, it should not be an affront to anyone's sensibilities or morals. I won't buy from an uptight asshat who decides to project his general frustration with life on to me. I don't need any musical instrument that badly, and something else of equivalent value and interest will surely come down the pike.
Same goes for sellers who are insulted or inconvenienced by simple questions about the history and condition of the instrument. Now that I think about it, some people should just refrain from selling their own instruments and use consignment arrangements instead (local music store, a friend, etc.). It's not in their character to handle the strain of dealing with people.
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Life Rule No.1- Everything is for sale, and everything is negotiable.
IMO, asking price is meaningless. I have no qualms first offering what I feel like paying. And when I sell stuff, I set the price knowing that no one will pay that. But things have to start somewhere.
In certain circles, if you don’t haggle, you’re labeled as a mark. Like in car sales. If you buy at sticker price, the manager will send out his detailing guy to sell you a scotch-guard interior protection package, he’ll send out the finance guy to sell you an extended warranty, the shop guy to sell you a service plan, etc., etc.
IMO, asking price is meaningless. I have no qualms first offering what I feel like paying. And when I sell stuff, I set the price knowing that no one will pay that. But things have to start somewhere.
In certain circles, if you don’t haggle, you’re labeled as a mark. Like in car sales. If you buy at sticker price, the manager will send out his detailing guy to sell you a scotch-guard interior protection package, he’ll send out the finance guy to sell you an extended warranty, the shop guy to sell you a service plan, etc., etc.
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devnulljp
Supporting Member
I had a guy offer me an old pair of jeans and $50 for a Jazz Bass one time, so I'd call that an insulting lowball.
Depends on if you were pant-less at the time...
I didn't know "that guy" even existed. In my vast experience, those who ask about weight never bid let alone buy. They just ask about weight.
YMMV
