I am new to trying jazz. The Real Book has a somewhat complex chart, but to me the tunes sounds mostly like a standard progression with the 2-5-1 turnaround. Advice?
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Double Bass Au Privave
- Thread starter bassman_al
- Start date
You are correct: In a broad sense (at least) "Au Privave" is just a blues progression.
Its amazing to me, and confusing not having the solid theory background that I need to obtain, that so many of the different chart variations that I see for this and other songs can be and often are all correct in that they work with the melody. A friend, who is a jazz pro and serves as my part time instructor and consultant on these matters, has looked at several charts that I have and said they all are ok to use.
I'll keep reading and playing and trying to understand why that is. One good thing is that it gets me to use my ear more and rely less on the chart since I know that if I step outside the chord, my part could still work.
I'll keep reading and playing and trying to understand why that is. One good thing is that it gets me to use my ear more and rely less on the chart since I know that if I step outside the chord, my part could still work.
^^^ Yeah, that kind of gets to the root (no pun intended) of understanding how reharmonization works in an almost abstract sense: Chords can obviously substitute for one another if they serve the same "function" (a word whose definition is open to interpretation as it is), but they can also substitute for one another if they elicit a similar emotional response -- which is obviously quite open to interpretation!
In a very abstract sense, the changes to a blues are really just
- some of this
- some of that
- more of this again
- something else altogether
In an only-slightly-less abstract sense, "that" has to suggest a certain distance/difference from "this", and "something else" has to convey as much distance/difference as possible.
Everything else is details...
In a very abstract sense, the changes to a blues are really just
- some of this
- some of that
- more of this again
- something else altogether
In an only-slightly-less abstract sense, "that" has to suggest a certain distance/difference from "this", and "something else" has to convey as much distance/difference as possible.
Everything else is details...
clear as mud. Thanks for the headache.
Please read the following as a goodwill effort to help you. It is not a lesson and it will not solve all your problems but it might help you just a bit.
1. The most common blues format is 12 bars. In my experience, the 12 bar format seems to be the most prevalent in the jazz idiom.
2. Blues tunes can be either Major or Minor. "Blues for Alice" comes to mind as a more major sounding piece. "Mr. PC" is a minor sounding blues.
3. Take a few blues tunes and learn the melodies. There are so many but a few that many people call are: "Billie's Bounce", "Au Privave", "Mr. P.C.", "All Blues" (which is in 3/4 time), and one I like that isn't so well known called "Roller Skating with Sunny". Learning the heads (melodies) and seeing how they relate to the supporting chords will be very helpful.
4. Ray Brown has a book as does our own Ed Fuqua that will really help you with the bass and the blues idiom.
Like anything else, it will take lots of work on your part. I can lead a horse to water but.....
Please note, I'm just sratching the surface for you. There's plenty to learn and digest. Don't be in too big a hurry.
T
If your ear is good enough to not need the Real Book, then you're better off. It's a sort of necessary evil when you're getting gigs and haven't learned enough repretoire yet to function without it. If you're able to listen to a crapload of recordings of standards and bop tunes and play along, then go that way. Consult a chart when you need to, but always trust your ear until someone tells you that your ear isn't trustworthy.
The problem with reading lead sheets, just to get you by until you can learn the tune, it is tough to ever get you off of it. It becomes a habit and I think it's a lot harder to let go and learn to use your ears, eyes and instincts.
If you search archives, you'll find a big thread that I started a few years ago documenting my slow break up from The Real Book. It goes like this, basically:
Once you are sure you know Au Privave and can play it in alternate keys, tear that f'in page out and burn it. Then you won't be tempted to just put in on the stand in case. (word of advice from my experience, figure out if whatever is the other side of that page is important and if so, learn it too.) It becomes a crutch.
If you're looking at the traditional Real Book, some of the charts are okay, some are...interesting...some are seriously flawed. If you hear enough recordings with enough variations of these tunes, you'll be better off. Comparing charts to other charts to figure out which is best is fruitless.
It sounds like you've got the tools to not fall down that well. I encourage you to be the exception!
The problem with reading lead sheets, just to get you by until you can learn the tune, it is tough to ever get you off of it. It becomes a habit and I think it's a lot harder to let go and learn to use your ears, eyes and instincts.
If you search archives, you'll find a big thread that I started a few years ago documenting my slow break up from The Real Book. It goes like this, basically:
Once you are sure you know Au Privave and can play it in alternate keys, tear that f'in page out and burn it. Then you won't be tempted to just put in on the stand in case. (word of advice from my experience, figure out if whatever is the other side of that page is important and if so, learn it too.) It becomes a crutch.
If you're looking at the traditional Real Book, some of the charts are okay, some are...interesting...some are seriously flawed. If you hear enough recordings with enough variations of these tunes, you'll be better off. Comparing charts to other charts to figure out which is best is fruitless.
It sounds like you've got the tools to not fall down that well. I encourage you to be the exception!
"1. The 2 most common blues formats are either 12 bars or 16 bars. In my experience, the 16 bar format seems to be a bit more prevalent in the jazz idiom."
Example, please. I know a few 8 bar blues, such as "Trouble in Mind", and at least one 9 bar ("Sittin' on Top of the World"), but I haven't run across any 16 bar forms.
Example, please. I know a few 8 bar blues, such as "Trouble in Mind", and at least one 9 bar ("Sittin' on Top of the World"), but I haven't run across any 16 bar forms.
Really? Can you give some examples? The only one I can think of is "Watermelon Man".
Not sure what I was thinking... My bad....That's the problem with trying to multi-task!!
I have corrected my post to reflect a more accurate assessment.
Cool, Treyzer. And Will-nice call on "Watermelon Man"; I'd never thought of it as anything but a 16 bar tune. D'oh!!
Funky, Boogalooy, I-IV-V tunes tend to come in the 16 bar variety. Without checking facts*, things like Adam's Apple, The Sidewinder and my favorite little known "Yes I Can, No You Can't", I suspect as being 16 bars, you can argue about whether or not they are blues.
2x16= what? Anyone??? 32 bars, like most other jazz tunes, so two chorus's make for a 32 bar segment. You can disect the crap out of those tunes and argue about whether they are 16 bar blues or 32 Bar A-B-A-C forms.
The key really is; do you know the song? Listen, listen, listen. You've been blessed with ears, don't start second guessing them.
*I'm speculating on those forums, I would have to look, play or listen to them to know for sure. But, if called on the stand, I would not get lost, because I've internalized them all.
2x16= what? Anyone??? 32 bars, like most other jazz tunes, so two chorus's make for a 32 bar segment. You can disect the crap out of those tunes and argue about whether they are 16 bar blues or 32 Bar A-B-A-C forms.
The key really is; do you know the song? Listen, listen, listen. You've been blessed with ears, don't start second guessing them.
*I'm speculating on those forums, I would have to look, play or listen to them to know for sure. But, if called on the stand, I would not get lost, because I've internalized them all.
