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Double Bass Audio Sprockets ToneDexter

#581
lurk said:
Excuse my ignorance. How do you disconnect the ring on a trs cable? Do i need to be able to solder? Are such cables available for sale?
Click to expand...

This simplest way is to use a TRS cable, and plug the instrument side into your pickup that has the standard, simple mono connection. That way the RING is not connected at the instrument. With that configuration, the recent ToneDexters will present a 10M input impedance. I should stress that on the majority of pickups, we don't expect this difference to be significant or even noticeable.
 
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#582
lurk said:
Excuse my ignorance. How do you disconnect the ring on a trs cable? Do i need to be able to solder? Are such cables available for sale?
Click to expand...


Just buy a trs cable. Open up the connectors and cut the wire for the ring connection. I cut mine right at the lug, then again at the base where the small wires protrude from the outer insulation. Then just screw the ends on and label it if needed.
 
#587
I was wondering when our Gear Junky Emeritus would get his hands on one of these new gadgets. And I thought you had retired (Rick Wolff). I love my tonedexter. Now that you (Rick) have one, how would compare it to everything else that you've tried in the never ending quest for MBOL (Chuck Microphone, Ischell, etc, etc, etc)?
 
#589
richhansen said:
I was wondering when our Gear Junky Emeritus would get his hands on one of these new gadgets. And I thought you had retired (Rick Wolff). I love my tonedexter. Now that you (Rick) have one, how would compare it to everything else that you've tried in the never ending quest for MBOL (Chuck Microphone, Ischell, etc, etc, etc)?
Click to expand...

Hi Rich,

I'm not sure what prompted me to finally call Mark G's shop and buy a Tonedexter, but I'm glad I did. Re your question of comparing it to 'everything else', I felt I had perhaps reached my ultimate MBOL when I got the Chuck Israels mic. That really is a superb bit of gear. If I played only concerts or quiet listening rooms I probably would have looked no further. However, I play in bars and restaurants where the house can get pretty noisy. I was able to accommodate that pretty well by cutting highs on the mic and using my KNA bridge wing pickup to add some highs back in. Even then I was still getting at least some sound of crowd conversation and noises of dishes and glasses clinking and such. Enter the Tonedexter.

The proof is in the pudding, so I'll know a lot more after the next four nights when I have gigs (an unusually busy week for me). Based on what I am experiencing so far in the studio I will be shocked (SHOCKED, I tell you) if the results are anything less than exceptional.

I plugged the Chuck Mic into one channel and the Tonedexter with the Chuck wavemap into the other channel. By turning up one at a time I was able to A/B them, and I honestly don't know if I could tell the difference. AND I had Both channels set dead-flat.

So, I now have what I call THE HOLY TRINITY: Wavemap produced using Chuck Israels Mic, the Tonedexter, and live input to the Tonedexter provided by the KNA DB-1 piezo bridge wing pickup.

I have been playing more arco recently, and have, in fact, begun lessons with a local symphony bassist. Today I was having trouble setting the bow down because it sounded so good through the Tonedexter. I didn't notice much difference in volume switching from arco to pizz, but as I often like the pizz to be set a little hotter than arco I can simply set the boost gain on the Tonedexter to the amount I want and then engage the boost for
pizz and turn it off for arco. Probably 3db will be plenty.

I experimented a little bit with the Notch, and the Character controls but found that it is so natural set 'flat' that I may only use those if certain rooms present a challenge.

Color me Happy.

Just as an aside: This little red box seems as well conceived, well thought out, and well constructed as any piece of gear I have owned. I am mightily impressed.
 
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#590
I recorded some clips with the Tonedexter using a Wavemap (22) made with the Chuck Israels Mic.
First clip is acoustic to the onboard mics of the Zoom Q8
Second clip is Chuck Israels mic direct,
Third clip is the Tonedexter with the Chuck Israels wavemap.

There is a verbal 'intro' for the first 58 seconds on the first clip. MUSIC BEGINS AT 58 SECONDS on all 3 clips.
 

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#591
This sounds good Rick! You can hear how the Tonedexter really captures the character of the mic. But I would look for another mic position, which has more mids (call it wood or meat) and still close to the instrument, at least to have the choice when beeing on stage.

I had succes with arco only during training, that seems to deliver the best and most natural sounding attack when using the wavemap for playing pizz. But most important to me is finding a good mic position. I try to avoid low end boom and yet close to the instrument. On my bass this is right above the bridge. With a greater distance I hear more room in the wavemap, wich sounds great at home, but doesn´t help to cut through the mix.
 
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#592
Matthias Hacker said:
This sounds good Rick! You can hear how the Tonedexter really captures the character of the mic. But I would look for another mic position, which has more mids (call it wood or meat) and still close to the instrument, at least to have the choice when beeing on stage.

I had succes with arco only during training, that seems to deliver the best and most natural sounding attack when using the wavemap for playing pizz. But most important to me is finding a good mic position. I try to avoid low end boom and yet close to the instrument. On my bass this is right above the bridge. With a greater distance I hear more room in the wavemap, wich sounds great at home, but doesn´t help to cut through the mix.
Click to expand...

Thanks Matthias! Great suggestion, I'll try that
 
#593
Matthias, I took your suggestion and made another Wavemap with the mic under the G Bridge foot. The other wavemap I had the mic right over the G F-hole.

I have always thought that putting a mic over the f-hole made it too boomy. However, Peter Axleson, the inventor and designer of the Chuck Israels mic suggests just that. He says that the mic is designed to NOT have a proximity effect, and should therefore be placed right up next to the bass - may 1/2 or 1 inch off the table (AND over the f-hole). I wasn't aware of his advice initially and after I read it and started placing the mic right over the f-hole I got a much fuller sound that really does sound Like My Bass (only.....you know).

The new wavemap I just made sounds thinner, but I did save it in slot 21 (the original is in slot 22) so I will be able to compare them on the gigs over the next couple nights. You are right in saying that what sounds great in the studio isn't necessarily what sounds best on the gig. However, having used the mic live on gigs where I placed it right over the f-hole it did sound really good so I'm kind of expecting my original wavemap might work best.

I'll let you know how it turns out.
 
#594
rickwolff said:
Just did my first wavemap with the Tonedexter and can now answer the question:

Q: HOW DO YOU GET A $100 PICKUP TO SOUND LIKE A $1,000 MIC?

A: GET A TONEDEXTER
Click to expand...
Well, I'm glad to hear it. I'm the guy who wrote the DSP software, one of the founders of Audio Sprockets. What a long strange trip it has been, like the song says:)
 
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#596
andynorrell said:
Well, I'm glad to hear it. I'm the guy who wrote the DSP software, one of the founders of Audio Sprockets. What a long strange trip it has been, like the song says:)
Click to expand...

Congratulations, (and Thank You) Andy! The Tonedexter is an incredible device.

I was really quite amazed as a first-time user (but a long-time 'Gear-Junkie') how the TD was able to get my KNA DB-1 Bridge Wing pickup sound like my Xlson Chuck Israels Mic.

Used it for the first time on a gig last night in a 2 story high boomy room. It was exactly the type of room where a miced sound can be way too indistinct. I found that the straight pickup worked beautifully for pizzicato, so I just used the Bypass function when playing pizz and switched back to the 'Chuck' Wavemap for arco. I have another acoustic trio gig tonight and am looking forward to hearing the results in a room with a lower ceiling and much more damping. I expect I'll use the Wavemap all night.
 
#599
IT HELPS TO READ THE MANUAL.

The Tonedexter is actually rather user-friendly, BUT it still helps to find out what some of those knobs do.

For example, there is a 'Character' knob. According to the manual: "This is a multipurpose control that: alters the sound of the current WaveMap to achieve a more focused, punchy sound relative to what the microphone heard.... FULLY CLOCKWISE - Full mic sound (displays CH2), 2 o'clock position:50/50 blend of focused and mic sounds. Displays shows CH1. 12 o'clock straight up position: 'Focused Sound'.

So far I had been using it with the Character knob straight up which explains why there were still some pickup artifacts (that can be desireable if you are looking for a more focused, cutting sound).

Now I have switched the character knob to fully clockwise and am getting the full 'mic' sound. And, based on my experimenting in my studio it really does sound like the mic. I base that on A/B testing against the mic directly into a separate channel and turning up one and then the other.

I was explaining the Tonedexter to someone at our concert last night. When I explained how it 'captures' the sound of the microphone he asked the obvious question: "Why don't you just use the microphone?" Well last night I certainly could have. But, again, I'm usually playing in relatively loud bars and restaurants end even though I've not had a problem with feedback I really don't like hearing noises from the house coming through my amplifier.
 
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#600
I disscussed this very same thing with Rick in a PM and based on what we disscussed, here are my thoughts. To my ears Rick's bass sounds incredible acoustically and with the Xlson microphone.
When the Tonedexter maps the Xlson and mixes it with the Cremona, in this case I hear what I would generally hear from a piezo pickup. Actually, if you go back to Rick's original demo of the KNB-1
it sounds really full, articulate, clear and has a good deal of warmth. Moving over to his demo of the Xlson sans ToneDexter, once agian the Xlson really sounds like Rick's bass does acoustically,
and captures the timbre and nuance of his instrument, probably could use just a bit less bass and a hair more treble when playing pizz, but that's splitting hairs. Now we get to the ToneDexter's
processing of the signal with the KNB-1. What I hear are shorter note, a very pronunced upper midrange (not necessarily a good thing), and much less low end than he normally would get from either the Xlson or the KNB-1.
Now I realize that, like anything else there is a learning curve to making Wavemaps for the ToneDexter and applying them to sweeten a particular piezo's sound. Initally, when I heard the TD's sound on Electric String Player
Youtube demonstrated on Electric String Player I was very inpressed, but that's not what I hear on Rick's demos, quite the contrary it's not nearly as good. Just my take, take it with a grain of salt. :) :D :laugh: :smug:
 
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