AudioKinesis 1x12 Cab Part Two

[KJung]

No I'm not. I'm simply saying the GK cab seems to me to be somewhat close to the tonal descriptions I've read so far on the TC112, including big lows, so I would think they would be fairly comparable if Duke says the sensitivity is "in the ballpark". Don't over-read me here... I'm not saying identical. I'm saying comparable. There's a big difference there.

Have you actually heard or played through a GK Neo112-II? This reads as if you haven't. This reads more along the lines of a Berg AE112. Totally different animals.

I have. Not comparable in any way IMO. This does not mean 'better or worse'. Totally different design, voicing, mechanical specs...everything IME.

 

[Vic]

I have. Not comparable in any way IMO. This does not mean 'better or worse'. Totally different design, voicing, mechanical specs...everything IME.

Ok, then I must be misunderstanding the tonal comments on the TC112 (or the GK... one of the two).

 

[loopee]

Just received my Tots.......YIPPEEEE

Of course, my neighbours are home today so..............
I decided to plug them in anyway, it's 2 PM and I'm sure they can take a little noise for at least 30 mins before the cops show up.....lol.....of course, it wasn't loud but I just had to plug in and listen to them........nice.....actually the word "nice" is not good enough.......tried to a/b them to my Markbass little rig....listening to it now (recorded it) but I won't post this, my playing sucks today since I hurt my wrist last night but I'll post sometime in the next week.......oh but they are so "cute" (sorry Duke, just had to say it) I love the way they look with my LMII on top....will take some photos....my friend was here when I opened the "extremely well packaged" boxes and she just loved the orange plugs.....lol....

EDIT: So, I've just come home from a movie, the Planet of the Apes new one (pretty darn good movie), anyway, just listened to what I recorded earlier today and frankly I'm amazed....I know I won't get lost in the mix with this little rig....it's 3/4 the size of my MB rig, I played the LMII flat with the same volume for both rigs (mind you it was only at 9 - can't wait to try it with more volume) and it sounded like the Tots were just slightly louder but the tone was just right there.......only difference was that I had the horn on 9 on the MB and the piezo in the combo and the Tots don't have one but they certainly didn't miss any highs....I'm not good at describing tone but the Tots work for me and the lack of weight is just wonderful, I can gig for quite a few more years......

 

[JxBass]

Congrats! Yes, pics please

 

[lomo]

Pics of the Thunder T_ts, please )))))))))))))))))

 

[Derek Kiernan]

I may have misread you, but again, I wasn't suggesting it was strictly a case of a different measured sensitivity. I agree the voicing also plays a role in the subjective part. It just seemed to me the idea of an actual sensitivity difference was being rejected, which I disagreed with.

So I guess I hope we're really saying the same thing... it's "both".

It's absolutely both I think the only thing I'm really stressing is, sensitivity only matters as much as it indicates how much work the amp needs to do to get similar tonal and volume output into the room. An amp need to work 4x as hard to produce volume when you drop an octave. Whether you want to think of it as needing to add lows to a more midrange forward speaker, or cutting lows to the TC, getting a similar tonal profile on the TC means you have freed up the amp's wattage for general volume without running the amp harder, while the TC wasn't far behind in the first place for general sensitivity. As Ken pointed out earlier, if you want to utilize the TC for the unique voicing it affords us (which would be intensely difficult to achieve with a lot of other speakers), you'd probably want a capable amp. But at that point you're not talking about getting comparable performance volume as with a more conventional speaker, because that speaker wouldn't be able to do what the TC does at volume with less wattage cost to the amp.

I'm just making sure I spell out my perspective on this for anyone who has sensitivity concerns, so maybe some of it might seem a bit redundant to you as I'm sure you have serious technical knowledge and experience in application with this stuff. I know that there's been similar sensitivity concerns with the fEARful, and I just want to be careful others don't misunderstand what the TC does when it's a medium sensitivity speaker that simply doesn't get the apparent volume bumps in either upper bass/low mids or upper mids where wattage wouldn't cost too much to amend.

 

[Derek Kiernan]

loopee, I'd really like to hear them if you ever get the chance!

 

[loopee]

trying to upload photos but it won't work
PM me and I'll email it to you....sorry about that

 

[Jazzdogg]

Just received my Tots.......YIPPEEEE

Of course, my neighbours are home today so..............
I decided to plug them in anyway, it's 2 PM and I'm sure they can take a little noise for at least 30 mins before the cops show up.....lol.....of course, it wasn't loud but I just had to plug in and listen to them........nice.....actually the word "nice" is not good enough.......tried to a/b them to my Markbass little rig....listening to it now (recorded it) but I won't post this, my playing sucks today since I hurt my wrist last night but I'll post sometime in the next week.......oh but they are so "cute" I love the way they look with my LMII on top....will take some photos....my friend was here when I opened the "extremely well packaged" boxes and she just loved the orange plugs.....lol....

Where's that *LIKE* button?

 

[Jazzdogg]

It's absolutely both I think the only thing I'm really stressing is, sensitivity only matters as much as it indicates how much work the amp needs to do to get similar tonal and volume output into the room. An amp need to work 4x as hard to produce volume when you drop an octave. Whether you want to think of it as needing to add lows to a more midrange forward speaker, or cutting lows to the TC, getting a similar tonal profile on the TC means you have freed up the amp's wattage for general volume without running the amp harder, while the TC wasn't far behind in the first place for general sensitivity. As Ken pointed out earlier, if you want to utilize the TC for the unique voicing it affords us (which would be intensely difficult to achieve with a lot of other speakers), you'd probably want a capable amp. But at that point you're not talking about getting comparable performance volume as with a more conventional speaker, because that speaker wouldn't be able to do what the TC does at volume with less wattage cost to the amp.

I'm just making sure I spell out my perspective on this for anyone who has sensitivity concerns, so maybe some of it might seem a bit redundant to you as I'm sure you have serious technical knowledge and experience in application with this stuff. I know that there's been similar sensitivity concerns with the fEARful, and I just want to be careful others don't misunderstand what the TC does when it's a medium sensitivity speaker that simply doesn't get the apparent volume bumps in either upper bass/low mids or upper mids where wattage wouldn't cost too much to amend.

IIRC, sensitivity(KJung calls it "SPL"), impedance, and power density all vary with frequency.

A plot of sensitivity versus frequency provides more detail than a single number such as 97 dB/W/M [@ 1kHz].

 

[Vic]

I'm just making sure I spell out my perspective on this...

Yeah, I hear ya, and honestly, with Duke's last comment, even though it is technically both, it seems like it really is a lot more about voicing than sensitivity, so what you and Ken are talking about is really the biggest part of it anyway.

Ahh well... live and learn.

 

[Derek Kiernan]

I'd really like to hear your thoughts after you get to try it out! Most people are trying the speaker with pretty sizable amps and seem to stick close enough to what their heads and the TC do at relatively neutral preamp settings.

 

[Vic]

I'd really like to hear your thoughts after you get to try it out! Most people are trying the speaker with pretty sizable amps and seem to stick close enough to what their heads and the TC do at relatively neutral preamp settings.

Yeah, I'll definitely do that. I'm pretty stoked to finally get one, and I definitely have some applications for it. And honestly, this whole MB200 thing is REALLY minor. I have at least three other highly portable amps I want to try it with too... Ken's venerable F500 (I have one too), the GK MB Fusion, and even though Ken and some of his friends disliked it, I'm gonna' try the RH750 too.

I have a feeling I'll land on either the GK or MB head as a fave, just as Ken did, but we'll see.

 

[IntrepidCellist]

The Aguilar TH500 is another great match. Like an F500 with a bit of addable tight Ampeg style drive.

 

[KJung]

The Aguilar TH500 is another great match. Like an F500 with a bit of addable tight Ampeg style drive.

I'd love to hear that. That little head is one of the few new heads on the market that at least moderately interests me.

 

[KJung]

Yeah, I'll definitely do that. I'm pretty stoked to finally get one, and I definitely have some applications for it. And honestly, this whole MB200 thing is REALLY minor

+1 Your MB200 question was just a good way to talk about the impact of that wonderful even voicing and the quite amazing mechanical properties of the driver that really make this cab what it is.

 

[KJung]

IIRC, sensitivity(KJung calls it "SPL"), impedance, and power density all vary with frequency.

A plot of sensitivity versus frequency provides more detail than a single number such as 97 dB/W/M [@ 1kHz].

+1 all the way (both that I mangle those terms and your primary point).

AlexClaber made this clear to me back in the day when he was using his Acme's. If I have this right, in the low end, the Acme's are actually HIGHER sensitivity than the 'typical' bass cab. However, since it takes more power to generate that more even, deeper low end, the overall 'performance per watt' of the cab seems lower, since you don't have the typical imbalance between the mids and deep low end that occurs with the typical 'mid woofer' loaded bass cab (which again, isn't a 'better or worse' thing).

The issue I had with my Acme's was that the thermal and mechanical specs (as I later learned) of those drivers were not really up to the task of handling all the power it took to really get them to sing (hence, the infamous cone creasing issue with those boxes).

Duke 'fixes' this issue by using that super driver, and also by tuning the cab (and I guess spec'ing his OEM driver) to make sure that the low end response is a nice compromise between true, deep, fat, usable low end and 'efficiency'.

 

[mikeddd]

This thread needs pics. Not "more pics" but pics, period! No pic, no TC. Just sayin'.

 

[IntrepidCellist]

 

[mikeddd]

Ah, thank you, IntrepidCellist. /basks in glory of TC pic
I'd love to hear one of these in person someday.