Audition tonight

[StuartV]

My main band doesn't rehearse or gig often enough to satisfy me, so I have been looking around for another band to join. I would play in both or consider dropping my current band, if a new band were going to keep me busy enough (very unlikely).

Anyway, so I responded to a CL ad for a part-time bassist. They are an acoustic duo/trio/quartet(?). Their regular bass player is in another band and can't always do their gigs, so they want to find someone to learn their set list and play with them when the regular guy can't make it.

On the one hand, the whole thing sounds kind of lame. Learn a whole set list just to rehearse very occasionally and play equally occasionally? And their set list is mostly songs I don't know and not typical cover band songs, so I do have to put in some work and I probably won't get a lot of "use" of the songs in future playing.

On the other hand, they seem to play a lot of winery gigs, corporate gigs, and private parties (as opposed to regular bar gigs). The specific gig they have coming where they know they would need me is a corporate gig that is a 4 hour drive away. So, I'm assuming that the gigs will generally pay a lot better than the small bar gigs I've been playing with my current band.

And, I'm kind of hoping playing those kind of gigs will net me some connections to further opportunities.

So, I figured I'd do the audition and see what happens. They sent me a list of 12 songs which I have gotten down to at least an okay level, I think. I'd say the hardest is No Doubt - Don't Speak. Not that hard, but then, I'm not trying to exactly replicate the original bass player's recorded line, either.

Any of you guys have any thoughts on taking a gig as a part-time bassist like this? Worth the trouble?

I kind of feel like, if I'm going to put the effort in to be able to stand in and do a good job, but only get off the bench every now and then, that I should maybe be asking for more money than if I was just going to be their regular guy? Not like I'm going to be telling them I want $X per gig. But, would I be screwing myself if I ask at the audition tonight what they normally charge and how much I would expect to get paid when I gig with them? For a normal band audition I wouldn't even bring up money until I was offered the gig, and then only to confirm how they split the take and what they consider to be the minimum fee they would accept for a gig. But, in this case, I wonder if it should be clear right up front that it doesn't make sense for me to put in the effort unless I have some confidence I'm going to make enough to be worth it. I don't want to play for a free. And I could be spending my time learning more of the "standard" bar band covers and looking for auditions with other bands.

Okay, /rambling.

 

[RoadRanger]

I found myself in that position - but the tunes were all ones I should know anyways so it was worth it just to add to my repertoire .

 

[Milo Spleen]

I believe those are good questions and should be asked after the audition. See how everything clicks first and you will see how important the answers are. If you have a blast, then everything may fall into place.

 

[s0c9]

I kind of feel like, if I'm going to put the effort in to be able to stand in and do a good job, but only get off the bench every now and then, that I should maybe be asking for more money than if I was just going to be their regular guy? Not like I'm going to be telling them I want $X per gig. But, would I be screwing myself if I ask at the audition tonight what they normally charge and how much I would expect to get paid when I gig with them?

I would bring it up at the END of the audition... auditions are 2-way streets. Ask them all the questions you like about $$, how its split and so on. Let them know that you would have to learn the material, you want to do a good job, and need to know if it's worth your while to do so... be honest.

For a normal band audition I wouldn't even bring up money until I was offered the gig, and then only to confirm how they split the take and what they consider to be the minimum fee they would accept for a gig. But, in this case, I wonder if it should be clear right up front that it doesn't make sense for me to put in the effort unless I have some confidence I'm going to make enough to be worth it. I don't want to play for a free. And I could be spending my time learning more of the "standard" bar band covers and looking for auditions with other bands.

I wouldn't want to play for free either, but expecting anything more than a equal split or whatever the going rate for sub work is in your area, you don't really have a leg to stand on. I'd guess they are auditioning others as subs and you're not the only candidate. If their setlist is not well known to you, there are others who may be comfortable with it... that's the tradeoff with sub work.. which is what this REALLY is..
If you get offered the position, you have to decide if it's worth your while for what they're paying.

 

[Winfred]

If you really want more work, treat this audition just like a job. Because it is.

Show up (early or on time). Know your parts. Be nice. That'll probably get you an offer to play gigs with them.

Discuss the money after the audition, if you get the job.

Make sure they have PAID gigs on the books.

Take an equal split.

Tell them you don't play freebies, unless that's something you're okay with.

If you get the gig, keep them posted about your non-available dates. Update them often. They need to know when you're available to play.

Welcome to the world of freelance bassist! Have fun!

 

[mikew31]

How did the audition go?

 

[StuartV]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys (and girls?).

Short version: It went okay. No idea if I'll get the gig. We never talked money.

The long version:

It's a husband and wife duo. He sings and plays guitar. She sings. They have a percussionist, who was not there. The 3 of them are their "core" group. They have a bass player (who plays ABG) that usually gigs with them. I was auditioning to be his stand-in. And they sometimes also gig with a drummer on trap set.

For this audition, it was the husband and wife, at their house, me, and a guy auditioning on trap set. They had a great house with a nice setup in the basement for band rehearsals. Full PA with a big board, etc.. They had a nice electronic drum kit, for the drummer to use. The guy told me in advance that I could bring an amp if I wanted, but I didn't need to. I could just plug into his DI box and run through the PA.

I really knew better - or should have known better, anyway - but I took him up on his offer to not lug an amp with me. I just brought my Sansamp BDDI to be sure of getting a tone I like, going through his PA. I've been taught at least part of this lesson before. Now the lesson is fully learned. I will never again go to an audition with anything less than something I would use for a gig for the same band. I plugged into my DI and plugged that into their system. I plucked notes as the BL adjusted my channel on the board. And that was where I first got a clue that this audition was not going to fall into the category of "Great". He adjusted my volume so low that I couldn't hear it THAT well when it was only me playing. And the tone was awful. It sounded kind of like a passive bass with the Tone control rolled all the way off, except not as good as that.

Once we started playing, I could barely hear myself. After the first song, I was trying to be very diplomatic and simply asked, "can you guys hear me?" BL and wife both said "yep". So, I said nothing else. I figured it was their show and I wanted to get the gig and THEN decide whether to take it, rather than get myself ruled out right off the bat by asking to be turned up louder than they wanted.

From there, we played through all 12 songs that they had given me on their list, and I called one that they had on the setlist on their website, which I happened to already know. They both sang pretty well and his guitar playing was fine. I figured they would be at least decent as they seem to work regularly as just a duo or trio.

The drummer was solid, so that was a relief. He was the opposite of flashy. But, he held a solid tempo and seemed to catch all the breaks, etc.. So, I would say that, as a group, I thought we sounded pretty good for never playing together before.

But, man! My tone sucked AND I could barely hear myself! I feel like that right there may end up leaving me struck from their list. I believe that even when someone objectively assesses that your playing is solid, there is a subjective component that factors in how you SOUND. If you play well and your sound is good, they will like you. But, no matter how well you play, if the sound they're hearing is bad - even though it may be their own (via their PA) fault - they're still going to end with a less-than-positive impression.

At the end, they said they have 4 more weeks of auditions scheduled. I don't know what's up with that. On the plus side, the wife told me early on that her husband scheduled people in the order he thought were most likely to get the gig. And I was the first bassist they auditioned. So, I really don't know what to think right now. The BL told me before that his current need for a sub on bass is a gig in June. So, he has no rush that would compel him to take the first person he auditions that he thinks can do it. He may as well audition any other candidates he has lined up.

But, the BL also basically gave me the strong impression that he's got a list of subs and he's just looking for more for his list because he was turning down gigs last year because there were times when his main guy and all his subs were all unavailable. And I'm just not sure I really want to sign up for a deal where I'm just part of his temp pool and may only actually play with them once or twice a year. I know if I do that, I'll end up spending a LOT more time learning their material than I'd get out of playing one or two gigs.

 

[bolophonic]

I totally understand why you are auditioning for other gigs, but what you described hardly sounds like it would be worth all the hassle to me unless the money is REALLY good and steady.

 

[StuartV]

I totally understand why you are auditioning for other gigs, but what you described hardly sounds like it would be worth all the hassle to me unless the money is REALLY good and steady.

Yeah, if they decide they want me, then I will find out about the money and other factors and decide if I'm going to take the job. They said the gig in June is a corporate deal. I've never actually played a corporate gig, myself, but my understanding is that they typically pay pretty well. I may be totally off base, but that sounds like it could possibly pay as much as $500 per person, plus travel expenses. If the money is in that kind of ballpark, then I would probably go for it, even if it ended up being the only gig I played with them all year. But, if it's $100 to play, plus ride there and back (4 hours each way) with them, sleep in a craphole (or drive all night after the gig), and lose a whole weekend, to boot, then yeah, probably not worth all the hassle.

 

[MrLenny1]

Go for it.
I had a situation similar to that.
Ended up working in 3 bands for a while.
Good luck.

 

[RustyAxe]

I've never auditioned for a sub slot ... four weeks of auditions for a sub? Did you ask them where they had played, and what's on the book for the future? And shame on you for not finding out about pay ... as a sub, YOU should dictate that. Will you have to rehearse with them? Just my first impression, but they sound like dreamers, and I don't see much in it for you. But ... that's from my perspective, of course ...

 

[s0c9]

But, man! My tone sucked AND I could barely hear myself! I feel like that right there may end up leaving me struck from their list. I believe that even when someone objectively assesses that your playing is solid, there is a subjective component that factors in how you SOUND. If you play well and your sound is good, they will like you. But, no matter how well you play, if the sound they're hearing is bad - even though it may be their own (via their PA) fault - they're still going to end with a less-than-positive impression.

Other comments aside, I wouldn't worry about the tone aspect... we're often our own worst critics, and what we think sucks big time, sounds fine to others, and vice versa. I just finished laying down 6 bass tracks in the studio (10 days ago) and did that sitting on a stool in the control room (not the studio area), no head phones, monitoring baseline tracks via the control room near-field monitors with flat (no EQ) bass tone! UGH !!!!

One one song, the engineer didn't like some of the artifacts he thought were being introduced, so ran into the back room and hands me an old Gibson Explorer .. a 4-string, and says try this! I don't play 4-str basses.. (never have) and I'm supposed to record with it??? ***! Talk about being out of one's element! But.. the BL says the tracks sound great..

Stuff like that happens to all of us.. one has to learn to go with the flow..

I'd be more worried about the business aspect of this sub gig.. 4 more weeks of auditions? I could see that if these were well-known artistes.. .but ?? Wassup with that??

 

[StuartV]

I have a feeling that 4 more weeks of auditions just means that he's got 2 or maybe 3 more players lined up, he's only doing auditions on Friday nights, and so it will take that long to get through them all.

I looked at their website, including their calendar of upcoming shows, and watched a couple of their videos. They do seem to be working regularly and some indications that they are playing gigs that should pay decently and that I would enjoy. And then, at the audition, BL told me he had to turn down a number of gigs last year because they were either already booked or required personnel were not available.

In the end, I didn't see a point in getting into the money side of things. If he doesn't offer me the gig, the money doesn't matter. If he does, then I will find out about the money.

One of the things he told me up front was that they were looking for someone who could/would learn the music on their own so they could just have 2 or 3 rehearsals beforehand to get everything tight. My current band operates that way and I don't like it because too many people in my current band don't do their homework. But, it seems likely that these folks DO do their homework and so that plan would work for me.

At this point, the audition is done, so I will proceed on the basis that I am still looking for a band to join. If they call, fine. If not, well, I'm out a few nights of practice at home and one evening at their audition.

Oh, and @s0c9, I hear what you're saying about the tone. But, there are two issues I have with it. One, what I mentioned before. My concern that, even though they're the ones that dialed in my sound, they would still have a subjective, maybe even subconscious, impression of my playing that includes a sound that wasn't that good. And, two, if I assume that they had me dialed in to sound they way they WANT their bass player to sound, then I might turn down the gig just because of that. I don't know that I want to take on a gig where I'm always going to struggle to hear myself and then hate the tone on top of it.

Like I said, on the tone thing, my lesson is learned. Next time, I will take a rig that I would gig with. They are going to hear me the way they would hear me on a gig. If they don't like it and I lose the gig because of it, I am happy to live with that. As it is, I might not get the gig because of how I sounded (MIGHT, mind you), which would kind of suck. BUT, if I were to audition with "their" tone, I might get the gig and then when I show up to play the gig, with my amp, and my sound, THEY might decide they don't like me after all. That would suck, too. And understand, I'm not saying I would insist on playing too loudly. Nor am I going to just blatantly refuse to make changes to my tone to accommodate whatever they might ask for. But, in the end, I'm either going to enjoy my sound (at least to some degree), or I'm going to tender my resignation. Or I'm going to get paid a lot of money (THE most unlikely of all scenarios).

 

[s0c9]

Oh, and @s0c9, I hear what you're saying about the tone. But, there are two issues I have with it. One, what I mentioned before. My concern that, even though they're the ones that dialed in my sound, they would still have a subjective, maybe even subconscious, impression of my playing that includes a sound that wasn't that good. And, two, if I assume that they had me dialed in to sound they way they WANT their bass player to sound, then I might turn down the gig just because of that. I don't know that I want to take on a gig where I'm always going to struggle to hear myself and then hate the tone on top of it.

Agreed on all points.. however, if they dialed in the bass - to their liking - then they probably thought you "sounded" fine. If you played well, then ... all good too!
But yeah, if YOU can't stand the tone they like, then perhaps this is not for you.

No-one I've subbed for has ever questioned my tone, at least not to my face.

 

[StuartV]

Agreed on all points.. however, if they dialed in the bass - to their liking - then they probably thought you "sounded" fine. If you played well, then ... all good too!
But yeah, if YOU can't stand the tone they like, then perhaps this is not for you.

No-one I've subbed for has ever questioned my tone, at least not to my face.

Yeah, I'm just going to HOPE that I get the call back, and that I rehearse with them again, but take my amp, and they decide that they like MY tone even better than the tone they dialed in for me.

 

[Fiset]

Couple of random thoughts (in no particular order):

• I agree with s0c9 about your tone. Unlikely they will be judging you harshly based on the tone they dialed in for you. I would have been more concerned about not being able to hear myself though and would have said as much to them.

• 12 songs is a lot of songs to learn for an audition. 3 or 4 would have been more reasonable. I've auditioned plenty in my time and if someone ever asks me to learn 12 songs for an audition, I would have to really want the gig.

• I wouldn't put much thought into what the wife said about the order of players and all that. It would be no surprise if she said something similar to everyone who auditions.

• 4 weeks is a long time but since you're in no hurry, its no big deal. I tend to make sure the people auditioning me know that I'm also looking at other things so they don't get the initial impression that I'm just hanging around waiting for them. If they want me, they need to step up.

• Understand not wanting to discuss money unless they offer you the gig but its perfectly reasonable to have that discussion at the audition since this is a sub gig (perfectly reasonable to have the discussion if it were for a regular spot as well). One advantage to having the discussion at the audition would be that it may have decided things for you now. If they're only going to give you a small share, for example, rather than an equal share, you could have said thanks but no thanks and been done with it. I always prefer to have the money issues understood first.

I hope it goes the way you want....good luck.

 

[StuartV]

Thanks, Fiset.

The tone thing left me wondering if it was a case of the BL is no sound engineer, and he plugged me into the channel his regular guy goes through, and just left the EQ settings for that channel how his regular guy likes them. In which case, it could result in him thinking, "that guy didn't sound good. But, he was using the same settings our regular guy uses, so it must have been him." A pro sound engineer wouldn't be expected to think like that, but...

12 songs was no big deal. They were mostly all pretty easy. I spent about 4 evenings at home getting them all written out the way I notate things out (usually, just chords for verse and chorus and then notes about the order and counts of each) and then playing them along with the original recordings.

As for them understanding that I'm still looking around, well, I expect that to be understood. If they needed that spelled out and I find something else in the meantime, well then, they weren't sufficiently professionally-minded, and it's no skin off my back.

As for the money, I figure I should either have the discussion beforehand and decide not to do the audition, or wait until after and if I get the offer. At the point I was there, I couldn't see a reason to bring it up then. Asking about money, deciding it wasn't good enough, and leaving would have been very lame on my part. And if I wasn't going to do that, then no reason not to just let it ride.

 

[RustyAxe]

Asking about money, deciding it wasn't good enough, and leaving would have been very lame on my part.

Why is that? Either the game is worth the candle, or it isn't. The sooner one party or the other realizes its not gonna work, the better. I'm auditioning for a start up stage show band next week (a Patsy Cline tribute thing, I'll be on upright bass), and if they like me, and I like them, you can be sure I'll bring up the subject of compensation before I leave. Not lame at all. Rehearsals are once a week, an hour from home. Their manager (yeah, we'll see if she's someone's SO) tells me they will record rehearsals and learn their parts individually. Sounded professional and on the up and up, and understood that all the travel time and expense is an investment on my part that must pay off. We'll see ...

 

[StuartV]

Why is that? Either the game is worth the candle, or it isn't.

Asking before the day of the audition and bagging it because of that is not lame. Waiting until everyone else has scheduled their whole evening to do the audition, showing up, asking a couple of questions that I COULD have asked ahead of time, then leaving without playing - that would be lame.

I mean, if I was on the other side of the fence and that happened, I'd be going "***? If that was a dealbreaker for even playing the audition, why didn't he ask before showing up here?! I could have scheduled someone else to come tonight if that was going to be the case."

 

[lfmn16]

So, I'm assuming that the gigs will generally pay a lot better than the small bar gigs I've been playing with my current band.

Why would you assume anything? I don't go to an audition until I hear the band and I know how often they practice; how often they gig; where the gigs are (general geographic location), how many sets they are, how much they pay, how close to the record do they expect me to play, etc, etc, etc. Why waste your time?