You may also substitute "Having worked as an employer and/or supervisor...".
If you have even the slightest hunch you're dealing with drug and/or alcohol abusers, you're probably spot-on.
Riis
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Auditions, how do you detect the drunks/drug addicts?
- Thread starter Rocks
- Start date
You may also substitute "Having worked as an employer and/or supervisor...".
If you have even the slightest hunch you're dealing with drug and/or alcohol abusers, you're probably spot-on.
Riis
Alcoholics will always try to hide their drinking. There really isn't any magical way that you will be able to know if a person's drinking is under control or not. Many alcoholics manage to hide it from their families for YEARS. So, they will always find a way to hide it as long as necessary to get what they want.
The only guaranteed way to make sure the drinking is always under control is to insist on NO drinking whatsoever and have zero tolerance for it. The only place that I know of where this is done sucessfully to any extent is in a church's band. So, I think the reality is that as long as you are going to play in places the encourage drinking, you are going to be challenged by this issue periodically. Sorry, no one likes to hear the bear truth...but there it is. If you play the types of music that encourage partying and getting drunk and/or you play in places that encourage drinking, you're going attract those types of people.
Helpful hint: People with a high tolerance for alcohol are more prone to become (or already be) alcoholics. If someone can "hold their own" or "drink you under-the-table"
...bad sign.
There's no way around it. Either learn to live with it, or change what you're doing.
I have known, have played with and still play with great, and I mean great musicians who like 'a couple' of beers or (and this is what I prefer) a little 'J', some people have a higher tolerance than others, fine, but they don't forget what they are there for, they do not want to embarrass themselves by messing up, they have too much pride for that.
We are not talking people with substance issues here though, they like a little soft, manageable angle and relax.
People (and especially muso's I've found, whom blend the habit in with the bar work/gigs) with alcohol problems (and I've known/know lot's) will go to great lengths to disguise the hangup, and they are very gifted at it too, fair play, not stupid guy's, not by any stretch ; )
But man, if I showed up to something and see prescriptions/whatever mixed with beer, I'd walk straight back out, that indicates need, mixing them up, no good, for anyone.
We are not talking people with substance issues here though, they like a little soft, manageable angle and relax.
People (and especially muso's I've found, whom blend the habit in with the bar work/gigs) with alcohol problems (and I've known/know lot's) will go to great lengths to disguise the hangup, and they are very gifted at it too, fair play, not stupid guy's, not by any stretch ; )
But man, if I showed up to something and see prescriptions/whatever mixed with beer, I'd walk straight back out, that indicates need, mixing them up, no good, for anyone.
I went to my audition tonight after talking to two of the members on the phone and explaining I was leaving my last band because of drinking and drug issues. We get stuff set up and they decide to do a beer run before we start playing. SO here I am left in this strangers house by myself while they went for beer. I should have just packed up right then and there and been gone before they got back, but I wanted to see what was going to happen and heck I already drove over, may as well at least play a few songs.
Now mind you, they sent me a full three sets of material only two days ago. I told them I know about 6 of these tunes already and can learn a few more before the audition, I'm told thats perfect. They get back from the beer run and start calling of songs that I already told them I didn't know. Finally we play a couple I know but they messed up some changes ("born to be wild" was a train wreck) Next I'm told that 95% of the set list they sent me is no longer being considered and they have all new ideas for songs. Most of them I never heard of, really off the wall stuff and nothing like the style I was lead to believe the band was planning on playing. After about an hour and a half three of them killed off a little over a case of beer. I noticed all the empties on the counter and just shook my head in disgust. I made an excuse and told them to give me a list of 6 of the tunes they want to play and I'll check them out and if I like them I'll learn them (my polite way of getting the heck out) I pack up my gear and shake their hands, thanking them for letting me try out and walk out the door with all my gear leaving the song list they gave me behind right where my amp was.
What really bummed me out was for the most part, they really could play and the vocals were great, even the harmonies. They had talent but killed off a case and a half of beer in very short order. At least they showed they really didn't care what I thought about their drinking even after I told them I had a problem with playing with drunks. Next.
Now mind you, they sent me a full three sets of material only two days ago. I told them I know about 6 of these tunes already and can learn a few more before the audition, I'm told thats perfect. They get back from the beer run and start calling of songs that I already told them I didn't know. Finally we play a couple I know but they messed up some changes ("born to be wild" was a train wreck) Next I'm told that 95% of the set list they sent me is no longer being considered and they have all new ideas for songs. Most of them I never heard of, really off the wall stuff and nothing like the style I was lead to believe the band was planning on playing. After about an hour and a half three of them killed off a little over a case of beer. I noticed all the empties on the counter and just shook my head in disgust. I made an excuse and told them to give me a list of 6 of the tunes they want to play and I'll check them out and if I like them I'll learn them (my polite way of getting the heck out) I pack up my gear and shake their hands, thanking them for letting me try out and walk out the door with all my gear leaving the song list they gave me behind right where my amp was.
What really bummed me out was for the most part, they really could play and the vocals were great, even the harmonies. They had talent but killed off a case and a half of beer in very short order. At least they showed they really didn't care what I thought about their drinking even after I told them I had a problem with playing with drunks. Next.
That's the problem with muso's? imitating the 'rock star' head trip, 'I am an ocean of emotion, I must be by proxy' nonsense copout, waste of time, otherwise known as 'chancers' here. I think the problem is your aiming low if your looking for better.
Why do you want to weed out the ones who have the highest potential for writing great music?
Because in spite of their suffering genius, they don't know their @$$ from their elbows
If your guitar player calls you at 4 a.m to jam, you might be a redneck. Oh yeah,He's probably doing meth.
I do this while talking on the phone before even going to an audition. I generally ask things like "what kind of beer do you guys usually like at practice" This way I find out right away if they drink or say they don't. Like I stated above, I have no problem with someone having a couple/few beers - and by this I mean having maybe 2-3 beers over a 3 hour practice. Its when they are killing off 12 packs each in a couple hours that I have a problem. There are many people that can control themselves and just drink a couple beers. My dad is one of them, I've never seen him have more than 2 in the same day all my life.
Honestly its about impossible to predict...(I have some severe alcoholics in my family and used to hangout with some kids that spiraled out of control with pain killers/heroin and some on hallucinates.)
If your really on your game though peoples pupils are their biggest give away that they do drugs/drink too much. Pain killers make them tiny, hallucinates make them bigger and contract/expand really fast(thats weed too its a hallucinate.) Alcohol generally makes your pupils larger but this isn't as noticeable IME
Sorry your having problems with people into that. We all do at somepoint in life. Just keep looking and playing.
If your really on your game though peoples pupils are their biggest give away that they do drugs/drink too much. Pain killers make them tiny, hallucinates make them bigger and contract/expand really fast(thats weed too its a hallucinate.) Alcohol generally makes your pupils larger but this isn't as noticeable IME
Sorry your having problems with people into that. We all do at somepoint in life. Just keep looking and playing.
Of course you have to see them sober at some point to notice if they are different...(their pupils that is.)
How can you identify them? Couple of points to keep in mind.
Are they really skinny? Not trim, not wiry, but bordering on emaciation? If yes, there's a good chance they might be users.
Do they seem nervous or jumpy, all the time or more often than the situation requires? Addicts tend to have that habit.
Do they smoke excessively? Bear in mind that lots of musicians and artists smoke heavily, but if they're chainsmoking or going outside every fifteen minutes, there might be something else going on.
Are they showing any obvious signs - like suspicious sniffles or track marks? If they've got tracks, they're probably users.
Lastly (and this only pertains to alcohol), try to go out for a beer with the new band on the night of the audition/soon after joining. How they carry themselves at a bar will tell you lots about how they view alcohol in general.
I hope this helps a little. I've been an addict myself, so I personally find it pretty easy to spot people who are down that road. Really, the only way to reliably tell is to get to know the people who do these things. If it really bothers you, you might consider volunteering at a soup kitchen or homeless shelter in order to observe down-and-out cats for yourself, and learn they way they behave.
Are they really skinny? Not trim, not wiry, but bordering on emaciation? If yes, there's a good chance they might be users.
Do they seem nervous or jumpy, all the time or more often than the situation requires? Addicts tend to have that habit.
Do they smoke excessively? Bear in mind that lots of musicians and artists smoke heavily, but if they're chainsmoking or going outside every fifteen minutes, there might be something else going on.
Are they showing any obvious signs - like suspicious sniffles or track marks? If they've got tracks, they're probably users.
Lastly (and this only pertains to alcohol), try to go out for a beer with the new band on the night of the audition/soon after joining. How they carry themselves at a bar will tell you lots about how they view alcohol in general.
I hope this helps a little. I've been an addict myself, so I personally find it pretty easy to spot people who are down that road. Really, the only way to reliably tell is to get to know the people who do these things. If it really bothers you, you might consider volunteering at a soup kitchen or homeless shelter in order to observe down-and-out cats for yourself, and learn they way they behave.
you can put "drug test required" in the audition ad 
the ones who are really dangerous are the ones who hide it... those are the ones that will steal from you. it would be proper to let the people know before they drag thier gear over for an audition. if they are aware from the get-go, they will know you will be watching and less likely to show up. if they show up and like your scene, they will hide it to fit in. you must also ask yourself if you would rather have a fine christian upstanding man who is ok on guitar, or a guy who smokes weed and is more talented and would add to your bands attraction and level of talent.. its a fine line. i totally understand and appreciate your mode of thinking, just food for thought. i have joined bands that seemed like great guys the first week, then were all drunk and sloppy at practice 2 weeks later. ive been there. johnny a./ staind
the ones who are really dangerous are the ones who hide it... those are the ones that will steal from you. it would be proper to let the people know before they drag thier gear over for an audition. if they are aware from the get-go, they will know you will be watching and less likely to show up. if they show up and like your scene, they will hide it to fit in. you must also ask yourself if you would rather have a fine christian upstanding man who is ok on guitar, or a guy who smokes weed and is more talented and would add to your bands attraction and level of talent.. its a fine line. i totally understand and appreciate your mode of thinking, just food for thought. i have joined bands that seemed like great guys the first week, then were all drunk and sloppy at practice 2 weeks later. ive been there. johnny a./ staind
This.
Coming on strong with an anti-drug/anti-alcohol stance from the get-go is bad psychology. You're basically telegraphing the answer you want to hear: "Problem drinking is bad. You wouldn't do that, would you?" In some cases, a negative answer might not even be a deliberate attempt to deceive you- it's just a polite way of saying "don't sweat it dude, no problems here".
It's better to take a non-threatening approach, and start with a few leading questions. IMO and IME, it gives you a better chance of finding out where they're really at.
Don't overdo it, though- it would be pretty ironic if a hard-working band decided to cancel an audition because your initial approach made YOU sound like a druggie...
lol, my singer is the skinnest thing ever, will go out for a smoke after every song if we let him, and acts like he has ADD, and he's the only 100% clean guy in the band lol.
Your looking at the wrong things,
If your really worried about any "drugies" (Yes i count alchohal) in your band, look at the eyes, Bags 100% of the time? Red Rimmed? Half Closed?
Do they have constant Sniffles, or constant Phlegm
if their nervous dosent tell you anything... Except. Their nervous. But hey, im used to all sorts of Yummy Bias
I just wish there was an easier way to "weed" them out over the phone so I don't have to waste time and gas to go to an audition that I won't be happy with. I just feel so let down when I go to what I think is a promising audition to find out that what I heard on the phone is completely different from what really goes on. Plus, why would you send someone three sets of music if you have no intention of playing any of it and are changing the whole direction of the band, wouldn't you ask them if they were comfortable with the new direction before even having them come down? I told them straight out what kind of player I am, what I can do, what I can't do, what I won't do. I used to play metal back in the 80's now I play mostly classic rock and newer rock, stuff people can dance to, identify with, sing along with while at the same time not playing the exact same songs every other band is playing.
There are a lot of flakes out there and we musicians are some of the flakiest.
Sad thing is there are a ton of guys out there in bands just to have something to do and use it as an excuse to get away from their old ladies so they can get drunk, stoned, etc. Makes it tough for us guys that take music seriously to find a group of like minded individuals.
lol, my singer is the skinnest thing ever, will go out for a smoke after every song if we let him, and acts like he has ADD, and he's the only 100% clean guy in the band lol.
Your looking at the wrong things,
If your really worried about any "drugies" (Yes i count alchohal) in your band, look at the eyes, Bags 100% of the time? Red Rimmed? Half Closed?
Do they have constant Sniffles, or constant Phlegm
if their nervous dosent tell you anything... Except. Their nervous. But hey, im used to all sorts of Yummy Bias
You're absolutely right, none of the points I mentioned (except track marks) are a sure-fire way to identify a user. But they can sometimes help point you in the right direction.
As for the eyes - mine are pretty much constantly bagged, red-rimmed, and half-closed - but that's because I'm up until about 4:00 AM every night working on tunes, and get up for work at 6:00!
Also, I'm half-Korean, which doesn't help with having wide eyes.Really, there's no sure-fire way to tell except to see them do it. But keep your eyes open and trust your gut.
