I would come down here too. There is a kind of overly "loyal" feel to most addictive systems, they cling to each other with an almost suicidal seriousness.
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Auditions, how do you detect the drunks/drug addicts?
- Thread starter Rocks
- Start date
I would come down here too. There is a kind of overly "loyal" feel to most addictive systems, they cling to each other with an almost suicidal seriousness.
- Apr 20, 2009
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- 4,666
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- Endorsements: your name could be here, Mr. Sadowsky!
Tell them you're a police officer and if you see public intoxication or illegal drug use you'll be obligated to take action. 
I do keep mental notes of how many beers each member is drinking, how fast garbage cans fill with empties at practices and such. I also note when I see someone popping something into their mouth that I know isn't a breath mint (and in many cases they really could use one!) The thing is I have a bad back and a couple other medical conditions, I could easily get all the pills I wanted from my doc but refuse to. I've even had past (and current) band members ask me to get them and sell them to them, no F'n way! I have found natural remedies for most of my medical problems and avoid anything mind altering unless I really, really need it - like after a surgery of course I'll need to take some pain meds. But even then I cut them off long before the pain subsides and I man up and deal with the pain as I will not take pain meds for more than 2-3 days as I build a tolerance very quickly and start to want more. I know how I am, I have an addictive personality and could easily slip back into the drug scene if I am not careful. I just refuse to let it happen as withdrawal really, really sucks. Not to mention what it does to my body for weeks after.
Fortunately all my bands have come together from knowing people from other situations and knowing long before hand what their "habits" were. I don't drink at gigs, the rest of the guys have 1-2 and that's about it - usually after the gig. Of course, most of the guys I play with are married and have kids. A couple are younger but seem to have their heads on straight.
+1
As soon as I noticed that the guitarist had no teeth I should have been out the door.
Tell them you're a police officer and if you see public intoxication or illegal drug use you'll be obligated to take action.
I should get a police officers uniform and show up for auditions wearing it, tell them I just came straight from work and see how they react! It's funny, the thing is some of these bands told me they fired the last bass player because of drinking or drug use, now I'm starting to think they fired them for the lack of drinking and drug use.
This is probably the biggest problem I have in working with lots of different musicians and gig situations.
There's nothing you can do about one-nighters on a sub basis...you just have to roll with it. But any time I'm asked to work with someone on an ongoing basis I look for the signs, because drunks and addicts ARE going to flake on you, it's just a matter of when.
The problem is that people who are "functioning alcoholics" have usually been that way for a long time and are pretty adept at hiding it. I play with one guy that I've known for years, we've been in a couple of different bands together for brief periods of time, and I only recently figured out that he's pretty much drunk all the time...I have never actually seen him sober so I couldn't tell the difference.
Unfortunately, I usually find out someone has a problem on stage, when they forget intros and endings, what key the song is in, when they begin babbling into the mic between tunes, that sort of thing.
I generally start working on an exit strategy at that point because I simply don't want to deal with that BS.
In bands where I am the leader I make it very clear there's no drinking at all on stage. If that doesn't work for you, this is the wrong gig for you. I don't want to worry about whether you can stop at 2 beers or wherever you think your "line" is. I have NEVER seen drugs or alcohol "enhance" someone's performance. They think it does, but record it and listen back...your timing, your tuning, your dynamics...they all suffer when you're f----d up.
AFTER the gig, go out back, tie off, and mainline if you want, I don't care. that's your business.
I wish had the radar to find out this stuff before I start working with people, but I really don't know how you do that.
There's nothing you can do about one-nighters on a sub basis...you just have to roll with it. But any time I'm asked to work with someone on an ongoing basis I look for the signs, because drunks and addicts ARE going to flake on you, it's just a matter of when.
The problem is that people who are "functioning alcoholics" have usually been that way for a long time and are pretty adept at hiding it. I play with one guy that I've known for years, we've been in a couple of different bands together for brief periods of time, and I only recently figured out that he's pretty much drunk all the time...I have never actually seen him sober so I couldn't tell the difference.
Unfortunately, I usually find out someone has a problem on stage, when they forget intros and endings, what key the song is in, when they begin babbling into the mic between tunes, that sort of thing.
I generally start working on an exit strategy at that point because I simply don't want to deal with that BS.
In bands where I am the leader I make it very clear there's no drinking at all on stage. If that doesn't work for you, this is the wrong gig for you. I don't want to worry about whether you can stop at 2 beers or wherever you think your "line" is. I have NEVER seen drugs or alcohol "enhance" someone's performance. They think it does, but record it and listen back...your timing, your tuning, your dynamics...they all suffer when you're f----d up.
AFTER the gig, go out back, tie off, and mainline if you want, I don't care. that's your business.
I wish had the radar to find out this stuff before I start working with people, but I really don't know how you do that.
I know this is off topic, but if you don't mind what are some of the natural remedies you use?
I think you're turned around on how to find the addicts.
Don't talk about how you had to fire the last three guys with substance problems and then ask them if they have a problem. (Would-be guitarist: "Who, me? Never touch the stuff!")
Instead, just offer to lay out some lines or buy the first five rounds of shots after the audition.
Don't talk about how you had to fire the last three guys with substance problems and then ask them if they have a problem. (Would-be guitarist: "Who, me? Never touch the stuff!")
Instead, just offer to lay out some lines or buy the first five rounds of shots after the audition.
I feel your pain. The fact is, on audition day everyone is on their best behavior. It will take about 6 months to find out the christian preaches to much, or the drummer is unreliable, or the guitard plays to loud etc etc etc. Most musicians I know work all day and need a little escape from reality (keeps us from killing each other). Is 2 or 22 beers to much??? Maybe a hard call to make for some, for me zero is just right cuz the music is my escape. It just takes a lot of patients.
I'd say not having any alcohol or drug use at rehearsal is a good start. I know lots of people drink beer at rehearsal and auditions, I've seen it from both sides of that process. I've had people show up to an audition with a 12 pack and ask "Is it cool if I smoke outside?", say sure and have them whip out glass pipe and a dime bag. If they can wait an hour or two without crawling out of their skin you probably have a slightly better chance of avoiding problems down the road. Then again addicts are like ninjas at lying and covering things up, so there's no way to know for sure.
Well, I guess not all are natural but accepted enough to be safe. For example, if I can't sleep which happens very often (long time insomnia sufferer) I got off all the meds they were giving me, they tried everything from Valium to meletonin. I weaned myself off the valium months back and then quit completely. It took a couple months to wean off properly without risking my health as I had been on it for a lot longer than a few months. I now first try warm milk. If that doesn't help me sleep within 2 hours I take two regular over the counter Benadryls - its the same stuff they put in over the counter sleep aides but at 1/10 the price. I trust it since its been around for a very long time and I only take them if I really need to. I've gone a couple days trying to sleep on my own before resorting to anything more than warm milk. Many times if I just wait it out I'll sleep sooner or later. I also found out vitamin D deficiency can cause insomnia and many other problems so I make sure to take a good vitamin supplement at least every other day. For my back I also tend to try anti-inflammatories to reduce the inflammation, something like Alieve is a decent anti-inflammatory. I also found that for my back ice works much better than heat which really sucks as I am a freeze baby and hate being cold, but ice works. Other than that I take steps to insure I don't throw my back out. If I feel a sneeze or a cough I make sure to bend down with my hands on my knees or at the very least lift a leg up onto something, anything to keep my back from being straight when the sneeze or cough hits. I am very careful how and what I lift. I bought a two wheel dolly and use it to move gear rather than carry it. Plus, I make sure that if I am sitting a lot that I get up and move around, stretch out, slowly rotate my upper body while keeping my legs straight. Anything I can do to help exercise my muscles around my midsection and low back.
I think you're turned around on how to find the addicts.
Don't talk about how you had to fire the last three guys with substance problems and then ask them if they have a problem. (Would-be guitarist: "Who, me? Never touch the stuff!")
Instead, just offer to lay out some lines or buy the first five rounds of shots after the audition.
+100. The best way to draw any type of personality out is to appeal to it.
'acourse if you do that a sober guy might just politely excuse himself,and look elsewhere for another bandI think you're turned around on how to find the addicts.
Don't talk about how you had to fire the last three guys with substance problems and then ask them if they have a problem. (Would-be guitarist: "Who, me? Never touch the stuff!")
Instead, just offer to lay out some lines or buy the first five rounds of shots after the audition.
butchblack
Life is short. Do good. Find and do what you love.
Club musicians and substance abuse are too often linked together. I agree that it's hard to tell from the first audition if anyone has a problem. The hanging idea is good, but not all bands I've been in hang. I'd suggest being up front. At the audition mention that you've had problems with band members and substance abuse and any sign of that and you'll leave the band immediately. That'll at least put the thought in their head so maybe if they do have a problem you won't be asked to join. Having grown up in an alcoholic home I tend to have radar to detect people with substance abuse problems early on. Once you've spotted it get out ASAP. Chalk up any time and $ lost to experience, though try to keep your monetary commitment to a minimum. Stay out of shared equipment etc.
Ask them if they "like to party" while at the audition... I think that's the code.
I once went into an audition with a band and thought I did pretty well... Played a few songs with the guys, then they wanted to hang out for a while.
We had some beers and they asked me that. I said "uh, yeah, sometimes" (I drink here and there, but that's it). I didn't really get what they were going for... Who doesn't like going to parties? But, I think they were checking to see what all I was into without blatantly asking up front.
After that, we played 2 more songs, then they said "OK, great, thanks for coming out." That was it, I never heard back... I know that question was the turning point in the audition... You can just feel those things sometimes.
Anyway, I always wondered, but figured that was the reason, and I'm fine with it.
I once went into an audition with a band and thought I did pretty well... Played a few songs with the guys, then they wanted to hang out for a while.
We had some beers and they asked me that. I said "uh, yeah, sometimes" (I drink here and there, but that's it). I didn't really get what they were going for... Who doesn't like going to parties? But, I think they were checking to see what all I was into without blatantly asking up front.
After that, we played 2 more songs, then they said "OK, great, thanks for coming out." That was it, I never heard back... I know that question was the turning point in the audition... You can just feel those things sometimes.
Anyway, I always wondered, but figured that was the reason, and I'm fine with it.
+100 On this.
Go hang after the first couple of auditions/rehearsals if this is possible, put a couple of drinks into the picture and people usually relax the guard and then let things slip, either in body language or chat succinctly associated with 'habits'. Set and setting, make people comfortable, and they will usually start to be themselves, for you to read. Known here in the U.K. as 'networking'.
Not that I support the use of Vicadan/pain killers AT ALL for recreational use, but they can infuse much energy and good feelings if used ever so moderately within the law (if scripted to the user by a Dr. for a valid reason). By the handful is a major problem indeed - it only indicates that they have built up such a tolerance that they are indeed addicted. I myself have a medical problem requiring ONLY 2 pills a day and I stick to it. Period. They actually give me energy...but that's just me. Having said that, if I were in a band situation like yourself I'd have to think twice. ALSO, I can't stand drinking at band practices or girlfriends/wives/husbands hanging around - it's not a party, it's band PRACTICE! I know i might sound like a bigot but just my 2cents....bail quick
I actually have a policy of drinking a 2 or 3 beers at practice so it wont throw me off at a gig, but like you, I can't and wont play drunk. The greenery just makes me paranoid and nonsocial, so I just avoid it.
I was in a band with a guy once who didn't drink all the time and didn't seem like an alcoholic at all, but boy when he drinks, the floor's the limit...
I have not had to work with guys were any of this stuff was an issue. Most of the guys were to cheap to buy booze or drugs even if they were into it, which they weren't.
For me, performance is about 2 things attention and control.
If your using a substance and your on stage performing you really don't have control any more.
That statement was not an invitiation to debate me. Look at it this way, I'm right, your wrong, end of story.
For me, performance is about 2 things attention and control.
If your using a substance and your on stage performing you really don't have control any more.
That statement was not an invitiation to debate me. Look at it this way, I'm right, your wrong, end of story.
