Avalon U5/SansAmp Bass Driver

[Sneaky57]

Hi. First post here so hope it's not too dumb. Playing a Rickenbacker 4001 through a 300W Trace head and 1x15 and 4x10 cabs. My band plays mainly small venues, pubs and clubs, so I don't DI and we don't mic up. I use a SansAmp Bass Driver to give my sound a little more punch and am generally quite happy with it but we do get situations in certain venues where it sounds very boomy, even distorted, and nothing I do with the EQ or SansAmp seems to make any difference. A pro bassist I know has recommended using an Avalon U5 as well as the SansAmp but I'm not sure what the U5 would add to my live sound? Given its high price, would you consider it worth buying just for live use and can I use it with the SansAmp or would that be overkill? Any advice much appreciated.

 

[bthiemann80]

I think it would be overkill. The U5 is a great peice of gear, but sometimes you just cant compensate for a room's inadequecies that way. My advice would be to tweak your eq, you've got a great setup as it is. When it gets boomy like that, see if you can get some extra bass in the monitors, it will definately help you to hear yourself w/out having to take measures which may distort your sound.

 

[bigtexashonk]

The old Geddy Lee rig - Avalon U5 and SansAmp RBI straight into the house sound.

 

[MuzikMan]

Are you looking for distortion? If not then I would consider replacing the Sansamp with the U5. Definately an upgrade IMO.

 

[Sneaky57]

Not distortion as such, not in a metal kind of way, but a punchy Geddy Lee/Chris Squire type sound. I didn't know that was the set-up Geddy used so that's interesting. Will the U5 still give me that tone on its own? If not, what would it give me exactly? I've read they're good but still not sure exactly what they do, especially in a live situation. Excuse my ignorance. Or could I link it to the SansAmp for the best of both worlds?

 

[seangoespostal]

It would have to be one hell of an improvement to be worth the money, IMO. There's nothing wrong with using the bass driver; I've been using one for years. There's also nothing wrong with taking a line from your amp. But to spend that much cake for a D.I. like the Avalon, I have to be playing through some serious P.A. on a major tour.

If you're fine on most gigs without P.A. support, is it really worth the money? If you're really hell-bent on getting a D.I., try a Countryman or Radial Engineering. Even BBE makes a cool D.I. with built in Sonic Maximizer circuitry and a Jensen transformer.

 

[agreatheight]

Will the U5 still give me that tone on its own? If not, what would it give me exactly?

The U5 is super clean, so no - you need something in addition to add some grit. As for what's gonna give it to you exactly, I'd think a Jazz into a SansAmp RBI into the U5 out to the house will get you very close... it is what Geddy is using, right?

 

[benmoore88]

how would geddy set up his sansamp do you think?
any guesses for an approx setting?

 

[Transverz]

I've been wondering about this sorta same thing too. Is using a tube preamp of some kind worth it as the main preamp and using the BDDI as just the tone shaper? I was thinking of doing something like this going both to the PA and a power amp type of set up. Maybe even an EQ pedal before the BDDI.

 

[silky smoove]

Adding a Sansamp BDDI (preamp) and an Avalon U5 (preamp) in front of your TE head (which contains a preamp) is going to introduce a lot of "stuff" into your signal chain. This might be a good thing, but IME more often than not its a bad thing.

 

[Transverz]

Adding a Sansamp BDDI (preamp) and an Avalon U5 (preamp) in front of your TE head (which contains a preamp) is going to introduce a lot of "stuff" into your signal chain. This might be a good thing, but IME more often than not its a bad thing.

What about bypassing the preamp and going straight into the power section? You're right, no need for double preamps. One is enough.

 

[bongomania]

The boominess is an EQ thing. Your TE head has a graphic EQ, right? The EQ should be able to dial out the boom. As far as distortion, you can dial back the "blend" knob of the Sansamp some to reduce distortion. Luckily, that should also reduce the amount of bass boost, reducing the boom.

 

[afroman]

Adding a Sansamp BDDI (preamp) and an Avalon U5 (preamp) in front of your TE head (which contains a preamp) is going to introduce a lot of "stuff" into your signal chain. This might be a good thing, but IME more often than not its a bad thing.

I agree.
I do have to recommend not dialing your Sansamps BLEND knob all the way, I've found that turning it the whole way makes the sound a little scooped and not as defined.
Also, maybe cut BASS and TREBLE and boost the LEVEL. This is the way to boost mids in the Bass Driver DI.

Luck!

 

[Munjibunga]

There's really no point in running both preamps. When you set up in a room that turns out to be boomy, turn the Bass and Drive on the SABDDI all the way down. Then start playing, gradually bringing up the bass until it starts to boom. Then back it off a notch. Then slowly bring up the Drive while playing. If it booms at the tone you want, reach over and turn down the Bass a little more.

 

[johnnycat42]

I would try the SANSAMP as your main preamp and see what you think (plug through your Effects Return directly via the SANSAMP.) You can A/B it with your Amps preamp and see which you like better. It may take some noodling around to find the sounds youre looking for so make sure to give it some time. I am sure the U5 is great and Geddy uses one. But I use the RBI/BDDI as my main tone shaper with excellent and consistent results and dont feel like I need much more. You may like the tone enough and not feel a need to get anything else.

I find too many tone shapers in the chain is a recipe for disaster

My 2 cents

 

[Sneaky57]

Thanks guys, that's really useful. Probably saved me a few quid as well. One last thing...I know I should know this but, what's the benefit of connecting the SansAmp via the effects loops, rather than straight into the amp input socket? At the moment I use the effects loop to connect a tuner. The bass goes direct into the SansAmp and the SansAmp into the amp input socket. I still have the Trace's pre-shape and Graphic Equalizer buttons switched on. Most of the time it sounds pretty good.

 

[Kael]

Thanks guys, that's really useful. Probably saved me a few quid as well. One last thing...I know I should know this but, what's the benefit of connecting the SansAmp via the effects loops, rather than straight into the amp input socket? At the moment I use the effects loop to connect a tuner. The bass goes direct into the SansAmp and the SansAmp into the amp input socket. I still have the Trace's pre-shape and Graphic Equalizer buttons switched on. Most of the time it sounds pretty good.

The idea behind the effects loop bit would be to bypass the Trace's preamp and just use the power section with the SABDDI as your preamp.

Honestly, before you start buying other gear or re-patching your signal chain, why don't you let us now what settings you are currently using on both your SABDDI and Trace? IMHO, that isn't crap gear you are using and you should be able to pull off a good tone (without uncontrollable boom) in 99% of situations. Of course, some rooms are virtually untameable. Since the SABDDI is a preamp also, if you are boosting bass on both preamps (SABDDI and Trace) that would easily explain the boom you are experiencing.

 

[alangoldstein]

to ME, the only sansamp worth having is the RBI ( but i still want to try the RPM )

the 3 pedal bass programmable DI totally blows. so did the psa . psa is for guitars.

hope i didnt offend anyone here, this is my honesty / opinions at their finest.

=)

i think more stores should carry rpm, rbi NOBODY stocks them, not one store in miami has them. ever.

or ft lauderdale or west palm for that matter....

avalon is supposed to rule too.

however, what about the new AGRO by aguilar??? is it the RBI killer ??

 

[Sneaky57]

Ok, thanks for your help with this guys. My normal settings are:

Rickenbacker or Jazz bass into SansAmp Bass Driver

SansAmp settings are similar to the SVT sample but with level and presence turned down a little. So that's:

Level down 2 notches from vertical
Blend full-on
Treble down one notch from vertical
Bass up 2 notches from vertical
Drive vertical
Presence vertical

SansAmp into Trace passive input

Trace input level around 8

Trace 7-band Graphic set in a shallow smiley curve with the bass frequency on the far left and the treble frequency on the far right both just above the mid-point 0dB position. So the others are on or just under 0dB

Pre-shape and Graphic buttons both switched in

Compression control switched in and turned just above the mid-way point

DigiTech tuner going into the Effects Send/Return loop

Output level for most venues usually around 3

Hope that makes sense. Any thoughts?

 

[pickles]

I agree.
I do have to recommend not dialing your Sansamps BLEND knob all the way, I've found that turning it the whole way makes the sound a little scooped and not as defined.
Also, maybe cut BASS and TREBLE and boost the LEVEL. This is the way to boost mids in the Bass Driver DI.

Luck!

+1 Keep those EQ knobs behind center and just use a bit of blend ...

Adding the U5 would do nothing to help your situation, most likely what you need is more experience dialing in your EQ. Or maybe a different cabinet.